How Construction Leaders Build Teams That Scale with Ron Cox

Keeping the wrong person “because replacing them is hard” is one of the most expensive decisions a construction company can make. We sit down with leadership coach and operator Ron Cox of RC Development Solutions to talk about what actually works when you’re trying to scale a team, protect culture, and keep projects moving even when the jobsite fights you every day.

We connect Stephen Covey’s people-first approach with EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) and get practical about role clarity, accountability, and the “right person in the right seat” idea that sounds simple until real life hits. Ron shares how tools like assessments and the Core Value Index can reveal strengths, limitations, and fit so leaders stop guessing and start aligning work with how people are wired. We also dig into the tough stuff: “body syndrome,” internal team members who never face the customer, and how to create feedback loops that make the cost of mistakes visible without turning the workplace toxic.

One of the biggest takeaways is culture and retention. Ron breaks down how command-and-control leadership and ego can drive people away, and what changes help move retention from disastrous numbers to a stable, committed workforce. We also talk compensation strategy across different cost-of-living markets, servant leadership, diversity of perspective, and the blunt truth that culture is what you tolerate.

If you got value from this conversation, subscribe, share it with a builder or business owner who needs it, and leave a review with the one leadership behavior you think companies should stop tolerating.

Ron Cox, Chief Executive Officer of RC Development Solutions,
https://www.rcdevsolutions.com/

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Transcript

From Covey To EOS Tools

SPEAKER_06 0:00

And so that's how I got engaged with Dr. Covey. I became a facilitator. I started working with organizations on and making sure we had the right person in the right seat and the right bus. And that's the analogy we used. And then fast forward years later, that's when I got involved in EOS, the entrepreneurs operating systems. And I thought, okay, if we got the right people now, how do we ensure we have the right operating system that we all agree this is how we define success? And so I brought those tools into RC development solution.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 0:37

Really, the development's the key part there. We talk about developing leadership teams, communities, organizations. We also talk about business development, taking an organization, it's a mom and pop shop, you know, less than five employees, and growing it. In my experience, we grew an organization to over 3,000 employees.

SPEAKER_08 1:00

Welcome to the site visitors.

SPEAKER_06 2:04

I'm doing great. How are you?

SPEAKER_08 2:06

I am pretty good. Uh I took a nice trip from our other office to the studio here. Um and yeah, it's a nice sunny day. So usually in Vancouver it's raining, so it's great.

SPEAKER_06 2:19

Well, good.

SPEAKER_08 2:20

How's it in Missouri there?

SPEAKER_06 2:22

It's actually uh I'd say it's seasonably warm because today's in the 90s and it's only March.

SPEAKER_08 2:31

Wow. All right. Hello. That's fast. That's really fast. It's like that's like Arizona kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_06 2:37

Yeah, that's a normal summer day, like a July-August day, but it's March.

SPEAKER_08 2:42

So crazy. Crazy, crazy. Okay. So um we got in touch through Taylor, who uh works with you. And uh so this has been cool. I think the the the entire uh podcast community uh it's kind of interesting how people connect and and how people find other people's podcasts, and we get to have opportunities to chat with people we don't know. It's pretty amazing. It's it's a whole new network.

SPEAKER_06 3:09

Oh, absolutely. I love it. It's the fact that now you are the world is getting smaller. The conversations are really around the globe now, not just in your local communities. So you get a very diverse opinion, and it helps me learn and see things through other people's lenses.

SPEAKER_08 3:26

Yeah, you were saying that you were doing a podcast uh with someone in Singapore.

SPEAKER_06 3:31

I did. I did a Singapore broadcast yesterday, Munich last week, and the week before I was in uh I wasn't physically, but I did a podcast in London.

SPEAKER_08 3:40

Wow. So why are you so popular, Ron? What's going on?

SPEAKER_06 3:44

I have no idea. I think just, you know, you kind of emphasized it when you started. Everyone in this world is, you know, they're able to communicate, I think, effectively and learn more. And we're all, I mean, at the heart, I think we're all lifelong learners. And being able to have that um perspective, people like the story, they appreciate the open and candor that I bring. And so um I think the give and take back and forth, perhaps.

Learning Development Through Community Projects

SPEAKER_08 4:12

Well, you're doing something right, that's for sure. Um so let's dig into uh you and so you've got this organization now called RC Development Solutions, uh, which is obviously Ron Cox, your name. So tell us all about uh all of the things that you've done and how this relates in terms of development, construction, running construction companies, running development companies. Give us the lowdown of uh of how you got to where you are today in terms of coaching and and helping businesses.

SPEAKER_06 4:41

Yeah, you bet. Uh appreciate the opportunity and looking forward to the conversation. For me, it was really about I started off by working in not-for-profit. And so I got engaged early on in doing construction, capital improvements for a local municipality. Well, fast forward, it ended up being the fastest growing community in the entire state of Missouri. And with that, I learned a lot about construction development, not only just what it takes to do the projects of bricks and mortar, but building a community. And so the importance of balance and making sure that everybody, you know, has all of their needs met, whether it's uh, hey, I have children, so we got to cooperate, we got to coordinate, collaborate with schools. Um, we have a lot of youth that are encouraged actually to put down their devices and get outside. So we had to build community organizations, parks and recreation, and just bringing them to the table. And then finally, the health and wellness side, how what piece what do we need to do to engage that community? And so we just started getting together with citizens' advisory committees and saying, hey, we need a leisure trail system to connect our communities and our neighborhoods. And so that's kind of the mindset, and it's where I developed, hey, we got to bring people together in this organization. I kind of had this fun little terminology, I said tribe, kind of a Native American thing where I said, we got to build these tribes of these people where they have a sense of belonging. And so through all of that, I think a lot of it had to do with, you know, people want to engage, people want to be included, people, you're really they want to know how am I impacted by these decisions, and they want to have a voice. And so through that, I took that experience and I ended up bringing it into the private side. As an entrepreneur, I went to work for a small family company. Okay, and the mindset there was how are we going to impact the community? How are we going to serve those people and the parents and the kids? Well, it's kind of the same mindset. The company I ended up working with provided public transportation, which was another missing piece. How do we get people to and from neighborhoods and schools? And so we ended up um putting together proposals, bids, we ended up going out there, and uh all of a sudden we became one of the largest players in the school transportation company. Um, we grew that company up, and then in 2023, we ended up exiting the company.

Wilson’s Disease And A New Mission

SPEAKER_08 7:18

Okay. And then so since then you've been doing uh your consulting business. And so tell me the the the tie-in with uh Stephen Covey. Um obviously everybody knows the famous book or the original one, the The Seven Habits. Um so yeah, what's the um what's the tie-in there with you and Steve?

SPEAKER_06 7:39

All right. You're gonna go deep. You're getting personal with me, James. Deep cuts, man. Um 1997. I was sick. I'd been sick for a few weeks, finally got a diagnosis. I was diagnosed with Wilson's disease. And so there's no cure, and it's a terminal illness. And I got that diagnosis at a Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, and they were putting together a timeline with lack of options for medical treatments. They did do some exploratory surgery to try to slow down the progress. I ended up having some procedures done. Wilson's disease is a genetic um disease that attacks your liver. And so, with that, um my prognosis wasn't good. My wife and I had just had a young child, and we sat there and held each other and cried together and prayed together and just thought, what's this gonna look like? We're young, um, uh as a young parent. And so I literally came through that conversation with my wife, and I said, you know what? If God saves me and helps me get through this, I will devout and devote my time, energy, and effort moving forward to helping others. And so, sure enough, 24 months, I'm still here. So 99. I was sitting there going, how can I help? I need tools, I need resources, I need to connect with the right people. So I met Dr. Stephen Covey, and I became a certified professional trainer for Dr. Covey. And with that, it wasn't a full-time job for me because I was on the speaker's bureau, and you click a button, and you might hire me to come in and talk to your community. Well, I was really good at schools, and I was really good at not-for-profits, and I was really good at municipalities. So I had those conversations, and through that, it was the importance Dr. Covey taught me was building a community and surrounding yourself with people. So no matter what happens, Ron, don't focus on the financials and the budget and all of that, even though my background is finance. He said, focus on people. And if you get the right people in the right organization, the numbers will take care of themselves. And so that's how I got engaged with Dr. Covey. I became a facilitator. I started working with organizations on and making sure we had the right person in the right seat and the right bus. And that's the analogy we used. And then fast forward years later, that's when I got involved in EOS, the entrepreneurs operating systems. And I thought, okay, if we got the right people now, how do we ensure we have the right operating system that we all agree this is how we define success? And so I brought those tools into um RC development solution.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:34

Really, the development's the key part there. We talk about developing leadership teams, communities, organizations. We also talk about business development, taking an organization, it's a mom and pop shop, you know, less than five employees, and growing it. In my experience, we grew an organization to over 3,000 employees.

Body Syndrome And Hard Staffing Choices

SPEAKER_08 10:55

Wow. Okay. Yeah. So a couple of things there. So yeah, the seats on the bus, that um that concept or paradigm metaphor, whatever you want to call it, is uh been been listening to that and been implementing that for years. It's a very difficult thing to do. Um and also uh the other the the EOS, you know, that we the company that I run, uh other than this podcast at SiteMax, we you know, we use EOS as our operating system as well. So, you know, setting the rocks and uh setting quarterly priorities and doing the uh product um or the the tracker and the all of those things. I mean it's it's it's hard to do. Um but uh yeah, having having a framework for for who are the leaders, who are gonna be responsible for things, who people report to, the seats on the bus uh mixed with EOS, that sounds like a killer uh combo. Uh let me ask you this. In terms of um what are your thoughts around body syndrome? Like when you've you have a certain amount of responsibility positions in a in a company, and you know, you got a couple of people that maybe are just dragging their heels a little bit, and there's a bit of body syndrome syndrome there, even though they're not totally performing, it seems like a hassle to extract them and a hassle to rehire and retrain. And it's sometimes it's uh you know, there's a there's a sense of just kind of leaving them where they are until something major happens.

SPEAKER_06 12:35

Yeah, James, you're right. That's spot on. That happens all the time in in in the corporate world. I will tell you, I saw that, I saw that in the not-for-profit, I saw it in the government side, and for sure on the enterprise side. Um, and we can get into dive a little deeper into that. Sometimes it's very difficult, especially in organizations that are surrounded by family.

SPEAKER_08 12:56

Oh, yeah. Okay.

Assessments That Move People Seats

SPEAKER_06 12:57

To tell to tell your brother, sister, cousin, aunt, mom, or dad, hey, this is not what you know we agreed to, and having that tough conversations. And I've sit in those boardrooms when when that's occurred. I will tell you that the um the thing I did, and there's a couple tools, and I learned a lot again from Dr. Covey about the right person. And so one of the things that I combine the two, their superpowers, if you will, from um Gina Wickman traction and Stephen Covey Seven Habits, is the fact that we sit there and we say, okay, people are wired a certain way. So what I did was I ended up um bringing in, and you can use, I'm not endorsing any single individual um practice or tool, but we did psychological evaluations. And so in the recent company that I worked with, they were wanting to build and grow across uh the United States. And so we had 13 seats, and I literally went up to a whiteboard and we drew out a bus of all things, and we said, okay, there's there's six on the right, six on the left, and a driver. The founder of the company automatically put sticky note in the driver's seat and said, Founder, this is my legacy. Don't screw it up. The rest of you have to help me ensure success in moving forward. So each seat, I just put a job description, not really a description, but more of a title. And I said, What are you currently calling yourselves? Or what are others calling you? And so they had a title and they put it up there and we put it up there. Fast forward, monthly training, six months in. We had a conversation and we were brutal with each other. And we said, let's take that title, let's take the roles and responsibilities and let's marry them up. So we did that, and then we said, okay, what are your limitations and what are your strengths? So strengths and weaknesses, we kind of looked at that and we said, okay, here's the psychological profile. We used a tool called CBI, core value index.

SPEAKER_08 15:02

Okay, cool. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 15:03

And then so the core value index, not only was it a unique and a great tool for the time and when we implemented, but we used it to create a job description. So we said, the ideal mindset is this type of person. Great. Now let's go figure out if you're that person. And so we then we did testing of all 13 individuals. By the end of the first year, eight people were in a different seat or outside, not even on the bus. And they realized I will not be successful. And that's not Ron Cox telling me that. That's a great, I mean, as far as the overall organization, this is everyone looking in and agreeing that hey, we're gonna we're gonna create a job description, we're gonna figure out if you're the right fit, and then we're gonna let the the science behind it kind of tell us if you're hardwired for that. And and most of these tests you can get are 90 to 98 percent accurate as far as that's what they're gonna do. And they refer back to a stimulus and a response. So if you have this stimuli, how are you going to respond? And the stimuli could be a description, like this could cause you to respond in a certain way. That type of behavior is not what our clients expect.

SPEAKER_08 16:19

Okay, so is that is how is that um tied into the core value index then? Is that basic based on the responses you you you sort of goes into a matrix? Is that right?

SPEAKER_06 16:30

Absolutely, yeah. It will go in there and then it'll actually, based on a series of questions that you respond, and it'll group you, and then it'll put you into a classification. For example, builder, banker, merchant, and an intubator, innovator. So basically you will look at those characteristics and you say, okay, my mind tells me that an innovator would be great in a problem-solving role, but also the opposite side would tell me, okay, a banker, that person better be keeping my checkbook and my financials. And then you go, okay, if you're a banker, great. If you're an innovator, merchant, great. I'm gonna need you, for example, to be in a product development role because I have an issue and I need to solve a problem, and that's you. But then if you look down in the weaknesses of that category, you go, holy cow, you should never have interaction and interface with the public or a client because you don't have people skills. You might have product development skills, but you are never going to be able to sell a widget to anyone because you'll be offensive and you'll turn them off, and you actually your nonverbal says you really don't care.

SPEAKER_08 17:42

Oh, interesting. Double click on the nonverbal says you really don't care. What what's what are some of the how does that manifest itself?

SPEAKER_06 17:50

I think as far as the nonverbal people will, you know, standoffish. They lack being able to connect, they'd get disengaged. You'll see some of them that they don't want to carry on a conversation in the middle of a group setting. And a lot of times it's difficult if you call on them to ask for their opinion, they have a hard time sharing it. And if they do share it, it's probably what they are saying, what they think you might want to hear. Okay. And so it's different. It to me, I'd read it and I'm like, okay, for me, it's hard to find a trust because I want you to be completely transparent with me. You know, when we talk about our organization and this is the purpose, then I want to see it in your passion. And your passion is verbal and nonverbal. I want to see you leaning forward into the conversation. I want to see you with excitement. I want to see you participate. If I say we're going to go into a small group category or exercise, you know, I want you to raise your hand and go, hey, I want to do this, I'll lead it, I'll write, you know, I'll scribe, I'll do whatever. You know, give me the give me the notebook. They're engaged.

SPEAKER_08 18:58

What do you think of um of this strategy when you are trying to communicate with some of your people? Uh and let's say that you're a leader, right? And um that the person that you're trying to communicate with in your organization does not actually interface with the client. So they're they're someone internal, for instance. Right. So they the only accountability they have is to the person they report to, yeah, yeah. Um or their coworkers or timelines or whatever that is. Um what do you think of the strategy of trying to take the personality out of it in terms of uh when you're the leader, trying to distance yourself and say, just imagine that that the leader doesn't exist and you're actually talking direct to the customer or the client. How would you uh conduct yourself? How would you would you be comfortable with these with these timelines that maybe you're not meeting and actually having a direct conversation with them? Or is it or do we as leadership it just inoculate you from some reason and bubble wrap you around from actually getting beat up like we do by the customer or the client?

SPEAKER_06 20:13

That's a tough one. Um, because again, on the innovation side, in the problem solving side, I need that expertise, I need that education, I need that person who's been there, I need them to be engaged, I need them to be able to communicate. I think for from what you're saying is how do you get them in a in it outside their comfort zone and be able to communicate and be able to share, you know, how they're really feeling? Is that what you're saying as far as to the team?

SPEAKER_08 20:45

Well well, uh more of is is feeling the accountability. But but making um obviously they can't because they don't the the actual accountability comes from the direct interface with uh the customer or client. That's when delays, especially in construction delays or conflicts or whatever it is, um you know uh disagreements that could have that could be related to internal things within the construction company. So let's say it's uh an estimator, for instance. So an estimator has there's been some things that have not quite been right. Um and now the PM or uh the sales director who got the customer or the client got the project now has to is getting the heat for it. So maybe leadership says, look to the estimator, okay, I need you to understand what that is like. Because we we protect you in bubble wrap. You just get to to sit behind the computer and do your thing. And we do understand there's pressures around that. But I I I guess what I'm asking. Is how how do you get that internal person to truly understand the pain of mistakes, errors, et cetera, um on the on the front side?

SPEAKER_06 22:10

Well, I think being in that environment in the past, one of the things that I've learned early on as a project manager is making sure from day one that everybody understands roles and responsibilities. So we have an open communication. A couple of the things that I've done to build that and assure that we have that right person and that right team when we engage a client is I would kick off by saying things like, okay, here's simple questions. And maybe even you put it into context, you put it into a formal document, and you say, I'm going to ask others to answer these questions so I'm not biased. So I would send out internal surveys, this department. How's our internal team working? How do we work with another department within the organization? And I would ask for their feedback. Then I would send it out to a client and I'd say to a client, how is the product? How is the person? And we did we would break it all the way down to construction materials, to project management, to labor, to attitude, transportation, to and from, and interaction while we're on a job site with your people? Do you feel like you have any concerns whether it's your employee safety? Do we have um employees that treat you with respect? Do we have actual people who, when I'm not there, are actually there working and on time? And does anyone feel threatened or concerned about anyone that has my brand on their shirt on your property? And we openly ask and engage in those questions. And it's not just me, the boss, or the owner of the company. It's these are these are what's these are the perspectives of those people you're working with, A on your team, B in the public, but see on those job sites, and those are our customers. And I want to share that with them. I want to create a team and an environment that's open. I think when you do that, for me especially, there's there's really, I don't know there's probably four or five different things I would talk about, but the trust is, hey, I will have your back, you will have my back. But what matters most is are we doing a great job? Are we doing what we're getting paid to do? Um, do you have the ability to pivot? And perhaps we just go in and have a heart to heart and we just say, this isn't a good fit, you know, back to the seat, the bus, the time. It's not right. But I certainly can't have that type of person, regardless of their IQ and experience level, going out there and not servicing the client in a way we expect. And that's who we are.

Resilience Versus Emotional Warfare At Work

SPEAKER_08 24:37

Hmm. Wow, there's a lot there. That's that's a that was a good nugget, Ron. Sorry. No, no, it was a good nugget. No apologies. Uh that was awesome. There's a couple of things in there that I think where things get tricky with people is we're in a weird place in time where the word feelings are sometimes just a time bomb. Or they are or it's so you watch a lot of Taylor Sheridan's TV shows? Like Yellowstone and all that kind of stuff. Okay. So you see some of those hardened hardened men, the cowboy kind of thing, or the where there's this silent strength. And there's not a lot of, hey, what are you feeling? It's just something. Sometimes things are hard and you grit your teeth and you do it. And you stand up for your team, you stand up for your company, you make sure you represent yourself well and you do the right thing. That seems to have gotten lost these days. Now it's a how you feeling, uh, someone I got attacked, I'm getting threatened, all of this BS. And sometimes and I don't know where it comes from. I think social media is part of it. Whereas we're so focused on emotional warfare and we use it as a weapon. And it's kind of just wastes a lot of people's time. And actually the thing is that you can actually have somebody who's the right seat on the right bus, but they got the wrong influence. They're actually really good at what they do, but they've been coached somewhere, somewhere from some outside influence. And you saw that happen in COVID, for instance. You think that you had a group of people that was super solid, and then suddenly the family starts coaching the person that you don't actually have any interface with. Except like the person you have interface with is the person at your company. But uh the spouse, for instance, has an influence on suddenly now um how that person is going to react about COVID, for instance. And now the emotional warfare starts. So I think that how do you how do you coach people to have this um set of values is this is how we do things around here. Yes, we care about people, we care about people's mental health, obviously, because you need to be careful about the feelings thing. You can't be totally, you know, uh numb to that because it's it's real. And um but you know, in construction that seems to be this it has been in the past anyway. It's uh it's kind of this you gotta get it done. Because things are difficult. The entire job site is trying to kill you the whole time. Something's trying to fall on you, something's trying to slow you down, the elements are trying to get you, yeah. It's so you have to have a level set, baseline set of resiliency just to begin with. And then even if you're in the office, you are dealing with the minute that contract is signed, you're gonna get some kind of change just because it's the built environment. It changes daily. So you are you have to be resilient to change. So how do you stick handle this emotional warfare slash just you know being tough and just getting through things?

Fixing Retention By Killing Command Control

SPEAKER_06 28:24

Boy, it's a lot to unpack there, but um, I thought I'd give you meatball back. Well, I'll throw some numbers at you that are based on my experience and some of the facts. I was working with an organization and we were not, they had they'd asked me to get involved and to figure out why they weren't growing and why they were pretty stagnant. And so we started asking the lot of questions. And I said, instead of asking me, why don't we ask our clients? You know, why have why is your retention ratio road down compared to other companies in the industry? Why, why, why? So again, we started communicating, which was important. But what we had found out was they'd had a 39% retention ratio year over year of full-time employees. 39% is not good. If you own a company, you realize what it costs to train, to hire, to run ads, to interview, because now you're off the job, you got to go interview all these people. All that money is tied up into 39% retention ratio, which is horrible. So we looked at those numbers and we said, well, why? So we implemented a tool. We started going back and going forward, asking people during exit interviews tied to performance and paychecks. Hey, before you get your last paycheck, you know, be transparent, be open, be honest. And they were because wow, they're leaving. And so we found out that one of the number one things, and it's funny you tied it to COVID because this is around the COVID period, was they felt like that the organization had adopted and wouldn't change its ways from the 1985 command and control model. And so a lot of younger workers who were in the trades didn't want to be dictated to. They felt like that the management team was led by ego. And so, by ego, is they always had to make themselves up, build themselves up by taking others down. And so the communication was thou shalt do this. And then through those questions and answers and surveys, a lot of those people came back and said, if you'd only done it differently, you could have had this. Well, it has the attention now of the owner. If I'd only done what different? Well, if you had done this different, I'm the closest to the install, the process procedures, they actually saved a lot of time, which was money in the construction world and material. And so trying to get a balance between 1985 command and control, which young people don't respond well to, they want a voice, they want to be heard, they want you to take the time and listen. So we had training on hey, management team, slow your role, lower your ego, be humble, you know, take a swallow of pride, and ask these young people if there's a better way of doing it. And if so, encourage them and give them a voice, let them participate. And in by the end of the third year, they had a 93% employee retention of all their FTEs. So it's a tough balance because of the, I think a lot of it's because in that in that industry specifically, there's a lot of men. There's a lot of people with egos, there's a lot of people that aren't willing to change. There's a lot of rough, tough guys, just like you were saying, like uh, like um people that came off of Yellowstone. Yeah, you know, and in some of those situations in their environment are life and death, obviously. You want an operator on a piece of equipment that's not going to kill you or others. And so that's important. You want somebody that has the experience to know, you know, if it's an install of a very expensive piece of equipment, you want somebody that knows how to install that piece of equipment because it's a$3.5 million robot. You need that to make sure it's right.

SPEAKER_08 32:15

Hmm. So there's a lot of on paper stuff there, which is it's that's gotta be complicated to do. Because I think when you the mixing of generation, I think it's gonna be getting easier because I know that the uh Gen Z generation, they're fully tough, those ones. Like the young ones right now. They're in their late teens. They're different. They're a lot, lot different. They are they don't believe in a bunch of stuff. They think a lot of stuff is BS and they're they're and they're free to roam around and do stuff. So I think that w we're in a the the generational thing has has is definitely going to be a thing. Um but when you when when you mention that um the uh your younger generation wants it to be listened to and they don't like the command and control. That makes sense. But how do you I guess you how do you stick handle the okay, we want to give you a voice, but then when you hear the voice, there's in the back of the person's mind receiving that information, you're going, yeah, but you don't have enough experience to be able to make that suggestion and you haven't thought of the multiplicity of what impact that would have. So you're sometimes you're giving people with uh not a lot of experience the opportunity for uh commenting on the on things that you can't actually implement just kind of bugs them even more. So how how do you make sure that you're asking the right questions for people who can actually provide feedback and not do it in a synthetic way?

Compensation Incentives And Cost Of Living

SPEAKER_06 34:14

I tell you that my experience in that area is probably because I have two boys and one of them is in that generation, and he's probably the most challenging because what he would say is that what I what I believe is trust based on experience, but verify. So they will do their fact checking and resources for younger generations with more tools than ever before, yeah, is is good because they will come and he always comes prepared for an argument with all the data. And so he does his homework, he just doesn't spout off the top of his head because he thinks he knows more than the old man. He'll research, research, research, and try different things, and then he comes forward. So the younger generation, they they come, most of them come prepared for the conversation, and they do have their facts, and and it's more example. You and I have in this conversation earlier today, is they've got access to more different ways of doing things than I ever had at that age. I based my decisions back then, and I became an early leader and manager of construction or whatever the project was based on my own experiences, which were limited to what I saw in my lens in my market in my little region of the world. So they have access to a lot more information. At the end of the day, you still have to be able to work together. And so some of the things we've done and that we've implemented is we we actually redo comp and benefit studies.

SPEAKER_08 35:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 35:56

And so we'll come back and say, okay, here's the deal. We'll give you a lower base, which is your guaranteed take-home money to pay your bills, and then you'll get more revenue redirected to compensation based on the outcome of this project. So we will own it together. The consequences and the results are shared. You're guaranteed not near as much money, but if you're right, and this does implement, you know, impact us in a positive way. Thank you for teaching me something. Here's some additional cash for you. Let's move forward and start doing this new process or practice or tool in the future. And so we've kind of tied it to compensation. So, yeah, we might be trying some new stuff for the first time, but there's some shared responsibility there.

SPEAKER_08 36:46

Do you think that that's how relative is that to the cost of living in different construction areas? In order to be because the base uh like let's say that the project is two years. And someone's base, they have to endure this low base for 24 months. And then once the project is done, there's like here's this big bonus perhaps. But the base isn't even covering their barely covering their needs because it's so expensive. Because like it in in some other areas, people might be listening to this, uh, it's really expensive to live. And that base is like that's jammed, like they can't afford to not have that for a certain period of time. So what what do you think of um the different dynamics of strategies like that when it comes to different areas where income levels and the cost of living is different?

SPEAKER_06 37:38

Well, that's another tool that we used and we've implemented. So um at one point in time we had 24 locations, seven different states. Okay. So what you said is right on the cost of living across even the United States varies from coast to coast. So what we did was we hired an outside independent company to come in and they did a cost-benefit analysis for us and they compared it to the region and the market. So we came back and then we labeled based on job description where you fall in there. I wouldn't slot somebody in the lower half, even on the base. So base would, in my opinion, base would always cover the cost of living.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

I see.

SPEAKER_06 38:21

The other stuff would the bonus stuff would ensure things like retention, longevity, keep you and promotions. If you sustain this, then you get a new title. Um, not necessarily guaranteed, like maybe a set union contract might do, right? But there's definitely incentives in there. But no, we I wouldn't, I would the base would cover the the um cost-benefit salary and what it would take to live in that market. We had people on per diemes too, where they would go into another market area where they needed a cost adjustment or a compensation adjustment, and we would do that.

SPEAKER_08 39:04

Do you think that um you could shed some light on the company that went in the sort of mid-30s retention into the 90s? What were some of the challenges that that leadership had during that process?

SPEAKER_06 39:17

Well, I would go back to the fact that they didn't create the right community around them and they didn't have the the servant mentality. Certainly, certainly were not humble or kind. Um, had it all figured out, implemented, endorsed, probably ain't been hung it on the wall, then the command and control model.

SPEAKER_08 39:39

And so getting-double-click on the command and control model, just so everyone understands like high level what that looks like.

SPEAKER_06 39:48

Well, command and control would be thou shall listen because thou shalt report to me, and thou shalt listen and embrace and endure my title, my wrath, because been there, done that, and I'm getting paid to do something. And this title means I'm your supervisor, manager, leader, whatever you call me. So do as I say, not as I do. And the arrogance in that, the opposite of a servant mentality is quit asking so many damn questions and do exactly what you're told. Well, people are like, Well, it's wrong. Well, do it anyway. Well, that's not do it anyway. And you're not empowered, so you don't feel valued, you're certainly not heard, and so that's command and control. That's that type of structure where it's kind of robotic. It's like, don't talk. Why, you know, why do you even have a voice? It's the opposite of a leader who comes in and says, Okay, God created me with two ears and one mouth for a reason. I want to hear from you. Is there a better way of doing this? Talk to me. And command and control is, hey, I've got you know two mouths and one ear. I'm the opposite of that physically.

Servant Leadership Diversity And Better Decisions

SPEAKER_08 41:00

Right. Okay. So I've heard that the the um the serving leader uh concept. And how does that map into the different generations?

SPEAKER_06 41:16

I think that the I gotta be careful how I say this. I think that the different generations see that, and especially um, I'm I'm gonna get a sensitive subject, but it's also, in my opinion, it has to do with all the other things, such as genders. So if you have a dominant father, male, role model person who sits at the top, they have a different mentality than a younger person or then that a female might have, as far as following orders, getting in line, do what you're saying, do what you're told. You know, why are you still asking questions? And so I think a lot of that, that's what creates, you know, in my opinion, that creates some struggles. But what I've learned in leading an organization and growing at a rapid rate is I want people of different generations and I absolutely want different genders. I want people with different backgrounds because I want to make the best decisions because that's my client. My clients aren't necessarily all old men or young, single white females. It's a totally different group. And so I need a cross-section of my tribe that would be able to tell me, you know, and figure out where my blind spots are and be able to tell me from their perspective, this is what I'm missing. And I've already vetted them because they're on the tribe and are in the community for a reason. I trust them, I've empowered them. You know, there's so many things like for me, what matters most, it'd be like, I'd say the thing that really gets me going on creating that team that's gonna be honest is for me, it creates greater emotional intelligence. I really believe that. We have a higher success rate because everyone's given their point of views. The help, I think we have healthier outcomes because people are excited to come to work. People don't just say, hey, I got vacation or I got a sick day, I got to take it. It creates better leadership capacity because they want to aspire and ascend to lead that group and that team, and I give them permission to do so. And then I think overall, if there is failure, it gives us a better way of dealing with adversity because in construction, you will have setbacks. I cannot control the weather. So, how do we deal with that? And are we there to pick each other up or put each other down?

SPEAKER_08 43:50

So when you talk about a tribe, is that how you see the group of the that's how you see the company is. with tribal values.

SPEAKER_06 44:02

Absolutely. Yeah. I think so. It helps us overcome challenges. It it makes sure that we're there to represent each other. And it just I think it it creates better outcomes.

SPEAKER_08 44:17

So w having a very diverse workforce. Um is there a lot of personality traits if you will that transcend the the company's personality into the into the individual?

SPEAKER_06 44:37

Yes. Especially especially I think in smaller organizations.

SPEAKER_08 44:43

Yeah. You know we we always talk about the you know the word culture and you can ask you know what's the culture of a company and I I always say it's it's the net behavior of everyone. Like you can you can only steer it. You can't actually control it. Because it's it's you can't control people. People are going to be the way they are so if you look at what that net sentiment is and how we do things around here based on that average it's kind of the culture of the company. It's the culture of the tribe and I think the tribal thing is kind of hard these days, especially I mean and you guys have that you know especially down in the states now and we have it up here in Canada is politically the tribes are just so far apart from you know conservative to to Democrat or you know Republican to Democrat or here conservative to liberal or NDP. It's so crazy how it gets knitted into everything. Even in Canada here every conversation you go to dinner it all ends up at Trump all the time. That's where it ends up so how do you so how did because of the internet this is the way things have gone. It's it's everyone's identity is so wrapped up in the who am I it's so rampant. People are so lost half the time that they don't know who they are and they're trying to find some definition and they're where they work is a big piece of that. Especially with men. What the where the what do I do? What do I do? Because you know often um you know there's the there's the maternal side that we women are you know sometimes I shouldn't say sometimes a lot of the time are very proud of their kids and the things that they do and they're a great mom and they're all that kind of stuff and that's that's awesome and that's part of that identity. But usually with men it's it starts with the what do you do? Like if you meet someone at a barbecue you're like hey Ron nice to meet you. How you doing? So uh yeah what do you do for a living? That's kind of how it starts. And I'm like hey Ron how you doing how many kids you got it doesn't usually start like that. It usually starts of the I want to get to know is that is like a is that a a a in a male instinct thing do you think?

SPEAKER_06 47:03

Like guys asking each other what they do oh yeah I I maybe it's a male bravado thing or something but it's definitely a first step in a conversation um I think you know it leads to I'll give you an ex example of what you just said it demonstrates in the Midwest it's silly but it's true. You'll engage in I'd say a young adult conversation maybe somebody who's about to have children or have kids in elementary school and it's so crazy they'll say where'd you grow up where'd you go to school what and and literally especially in the construction it was crazy. They would talk about their high schools and then they go oh did you play football oh yeah so what association do you have with sports oh so you like foot oh you're a baseball guy oh you're hey I'm gonna assume you're six by you played basketball didn't you where'd you go to school and it always seems but that's what guys do. You're right. That's what guys do. Um you you touched something about that culture and the community thing again and about that's you that's who you are it's your organization and your culture becomes I learned something and I believe it was it was probably Dr.

SPEAKER_08 48:19

Covey in one of the conversations that we had and so it set with me decades now but he said a culture you can't train a culture like you can't train a culture I thought we had all these classes and and programs and whatever they called it a professional development it what does that mean he goes no man you can't train culture culture is what you tolerate what you tolerate that's yeah that's an interesting take yeah what behaviors do you allow in your organization do you allow managers to talk down to employees do you allow people out in the field to be mean to their colleagues do you allow them to belittle a client nice I like that that's cool yeah it's not what you train it's what you tolerate yeah that's good um we've touched on a lot of really cool things how do how do we the the how do you reinforce the the tribal thing like this is what we do around here like the there's kind of like a team thing it's weird like the when you think about tribes one of the one of the craziest tribe things is is sports teams they're tribes and you you know you show up at the jersey you watch the game it's like these are the colors you're wearing it's it comes from all of this tribal warfare basically it's it's but it's a game it's supposed to be friendly um I mean if you go into South America the soccer games not so friendly or football yeah so I mean but uh that's funny with um but with the the tribal side of things uh what what advice do you have for for for leaders who are who really want that but they just can't seem to get it they can't seem to like formalize an identity it's kind of like all over the place is it all about planning and execution just how you get it done I think it's that and the mindset you got to understand that in my opinion every meaningful journey along your your road and your career and your experiences it really should lead to one thing that you never travel and you will not succeed alone.

SPEAKER_06 50:36

So if you will not travel and you will not succeed alone that mentality is I need to be able to work with others serve others support others um and when I say others there's really three categories for me it's family especially it's a family business but it it's something when you take that job home too you know do you have boundaries you know we clock in clock out we don't talk about that so it's family and then number two it's mentors who do you confide in who do you go to you know when you've had adversity so it's mentors who do you surround yourself with you know obviously I've been blessed I've had a lot of great mentors in my life include including Dr. Stephen Covey um more recently um David Goggins David Goggins and I had a really good conversation about you know overcoming because of where I've been and what I've done and then finally it's those friends who've never given up on you. They know you've said some bad things they know you've had bad behavior they've seen you at your weakest moments and guess what they still have this important title in your life called friend. So those are the three categories I think that will help you. But you got to have that mindset that you will not travel this journey have this career live in this community or ever be successful if you will never do it alone.

SPEAKER_08 51:58

Well that's very very good advice I think that um this has been amazing.

SPEAKER_06 52:09

I agree I love the conversation.

SPEAKER_08 52:11

Yeah thank you very much I mean there's lots of good nuggets in here. So just tell me you know how do people get hold of you and um you know what what can you what can you do to um what kind of clients are you looking for what kind of uh what kind of network um or maybe you're busy as hell I mean you're pretty talented so I'm sure you are but you always you always want good customers right or good clients. Yeah absolutely best way to get hold of me is just go to our website it's really rcdevelopment solutions.com and you can click on there and it has me on there um with our leadership team and what we do and it's a good fit just you can reach out email me the contact information is there and love to sit down and have a conversation okay well this is um this has been a lot of fun for me and I've learned a lot from you and thank you very much I really appreciate it thank you James thanks for having me on and anytime if we need to have another conversation let me know I learn a lot from you as well and I love hearing your perspective well that does it for another episode of thank you for listening to it