The SiteVisit
Leadership in construction with perspective from the job site. A podcast dedicated to the Construction industry. Construction professionals, General Contractors, Sub trade Contractors, and Specialty Contractors audiences will be engaged by the discussions between the hosts and their guests on topics and stories. Hosted James Faulkner ( CEO/Founder - SiteMax Systems ).
The SiteVisit
Building Wealth Through Construction with Paul Atherton
Construction companies possess an extraordinary yet frequently overlooked opportunity to build substantial wealth—one that extends far beyond simply increasing revenue or improving profit margins.
Paul Atherton, founder of High Spire, reveals the powerful secret that separates thriving construction business owners from those merely keeping pace: leveraging construction expertise into strategic real estate development. As Paul explains, wealth creation happens through three primary channels—operating an efficient business, buying assets at advantageous prices, and adding value to those assets. While most industries might excel at one of these, construction companies are uniquely positioned to capitalize on all three simultaneously.
High Spire's approach centers on their "Four Cs" framework: Community that connects business owners with peers who've already achieved what they're aiming for; Content providing streamlined systems benchmarked from high-performing companies; Coaching that offers personalized guidance; and perhaps most critically, Capital—helping construction companies optimize their funding strategies and potentially raise capital from limited partners.
What makes this approach particularly compelling is how it transforms construction knowledge into a wealth-building superpower. Construction companies understand building science, estimate costs realistically, move quickly on deals, and possess extensive networks that can be leveraged for real estate opportunities. During recent market challenges, companies implementing this dual-focus strategy have consistently outperformed competitors by maintaining robust marketing and sales pipelines while optimizing their operations.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when addressing mental health across all levels of construction organizations. Paul advocates for a staff-first approach that helps team members create clear development paths—not just professionally but in all life domains from financial goals to family priorities. As he powerfully states, "Mental health is a commitment to reality at all costs."
Ready to transform your construction company into a wealth-building engine? Discover how your expertise could be the foundation for generational financial success by exploring High Spire's proven methodology.
https://www.highspire.com
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All right, paul. So heli jet cheaper than the seaplanes? I can't believe it. I know, I know it's one of life's mysteries. It is, I think, like some people have never been in a helicopter and you're just like, yeah, I just took one to this city. You know, that's kind of like a New York millionaire thing, almost right, yeah. Yeah, because they go helicopter to helicopter on the top of the buildings.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I know I don't, I know I'm hoping no.
Speaker 1:Helijet staff or leadership ever listen to this, because it is way too cheap for what you get. I'm sure they know. I'm sure they know that's why they're cleaning up over there. I feel like I'm robbing them. Yeah, but yeah, so like 300 and change versus 500? Yeah, I know it's crazy. That's nuts and quicker About five minutes quicker.
Speaker 2:That's nuts.
Speaker 1:And quicker About five minutes quicker.
Speaker 2:That's not that much. However, seaplanes, if there's any fog, they'll just leave you sitting in the terminal for four or five hours until it clears Any fog Like fog. Okay, we're on the West Coast. There's fog everywhere, is that?
Speaker 1:just out of Victoria, because they're flying through everything these days. It used to be like that a lot more than it is now. I think they've figured a lot of stuff out, maybe GPS, the way they got that going, I don't know. I've seen them flying in all sorts of horrible weather. The float planes Yep, I watch them. I mean they fly past our place every day.
Speaker 2:Like they need, man, those planes need a clear line of sight on the water. They do, yeah, so any fog, they can't fly, I don't know. Well, they can't land, that's the problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're preaching to the choir, singing to the choir there, because I have been wondering how can they fly right now, and I see them and I go all right, something must be Really. Yep, no, I'm not kidding you. Too many customer complaints. They want to Cherry bubbly.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, please, they want to take some of HelloJets customers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe Cheers. Yeah, I guess we cheers on non-alcoholic beverages. It's only 11 am. Be sad if we were cheering on something else. All right, so we're going to talk about Highspire. Today we were introduced by some people that work with us, which is fantastic. What a great thing for them.
Speaker 2:It's very serendipitous.
Speaker 1:It's very cool. Megan, who works with you, worked with Spire Developments, a customer of SiteMax, and yeah, and the connection started. Now you're here, you came all the way from Victoria and we're in the studio and it's a holiday. It is Chilling out on a holiday, actually. It kind of feels relaxing, right. You don't feel like you're stopping anything else. It's like, oh okay, this is okay right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the city's quiet man. There's nobody out in the streets. Quiet man, there's nobody out in the streets. I'm just walking around with my coffee, enjoying the nice breeze, and walk up here and do a podcast with you guys yeah, I'm surprised you don't have any glitter on you right now, because the pride parade was yesterday oh, I'm sure it was like turning around in the dust as you're walking down the empty streets. Okay I uh came up, uh berard, and then yeah oh yeah, I didn't do the go down that area yeah?
Speaker 1:No, it was on Pacific down here. Oh, okay, yeah, okay, different deal now. Yep, no, glitter, you're good, you made it All right. So, yeah, we're going to talk about your organization, which is helping lots of construction companies get more out of their tenure through time, and I think that's a very, very important thing. So let's get into how these people can do this. Welcome to the Site. Visit Podcast Leadership and perspective from construction With your host, james Falkner. Business as usual, as it has been for so long now that it goes back to what we were talking about before and hitting the reset button. You know, you read all the books you read the emails.
Speaker 2:You read Scaling Up, you read Good to Great you know I could go on.
Speaker 1:We've got to a place where we found the secret serum.
Speaker 2:We found the secret potion. We can get the workers in. We know where to get them. Once I was on a job for a while, and actually we had a semester concrete and I ordered a Korean-Finnish patio out front of the site show.
Speaker 1:Yesterday I was down at Dallas and a guy just hit me up on LinkedIn out of the blue and said he was driving from Oklahoma to Dallas to meet with me because he heard the Favourite Connect platform on your guys' podcast Home. It crush it and love it and we celebrate these values every single day. Let's get down to it All, right, paul. So tell me all about High Spire. Like I just want to get a it's pretty cheesy to say, but the elevator pitch, like what is when someone's like, hey, high Spire, what do you guys do?
Speaker 2:Just give everyone the pitch Right, okay. So our main focus is to help construction companies build wealth, and we do that through two ways we help them build a self-managed company, and then we help them leverage the retained earnings into real estate. I see, that's it.
Speaker 1:Two things Okay, so you help them do that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Sorry, you look like you were going to ask a question. No, okay, I'll keep going. So a lot of companies in the trades eventually, when they see other, when they see their peers say, exit, it's through private equity or whatever they go. I want to do that, but construction companies, typically, they don't have access to private equity. Okay, that's really difficult for them to build wealth to private equity. Okay, that's really difficult for them to build wealth. And so what we do is, um, we help them do three things to build wealth. Which? Um, if you look at the performance of a lot of the organizations that we work with, they tend to have, um, very significant gains relative to the industry. Okay, and there's one main reason why. If you go and talk to anybody who's built wealth, they've done one of three things They've operated a business, they've bought and sold assets more efficiently than the rest of the marketplace, and then they've added value to those assets while they've owned them more efficiently than the rest of the marketplace.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Now construction companies are uniquely positioned to do all three of those activities at the same time, okay, which makes owning a construction company very, very compelling for anybody who is, who has a desire to build wealth.
Speaker 1:So when we say a construction company, that spans a whole bunch of different disciplines, so we have GCs, you've got large ones, you've got GC slash developers do their own self-performance work. Then you've got all the sub-trades that support those projects.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:So are you talking across the board or are there some opportunities that?
Speaker 2:some have more than others. So, yep, Generally. Well, generally, our clientele are typically general contractors. However, we do have some larger sub-trades that work with us too, just because they have, kind of they have reached that critical mass and they have a lot of cash flow and big networks and they're just set up with leadership teams. They have like 100 staff and those guys are set up to also do real estate as well. Well, that's not true. Actually, we have some sub-trades that are a little smaller, but generally we work with GCs or larger sub-trades.
Speaker 1:Okay. So when you say, does real estate? Okay, that's a big-, it's huge. People get four degrees on this particular trade in order to perhaps have less of a bill and take that and then use that as a barter system, but in order to contribute into a project, so they get a piece of it. Or is it just taking revenue and being able to put it somewhere else?
Speaker 2:Right, okay. So, there's two threads to pull on here. You can take your net profit at the end of the year dividend checks and go invest them into some real estate fund and there's lots of options or the stock market. Or you can take that and leverage that money into your own real estate project where you are the general partner, you're the syndicator for the project. I see okay, right, and construction companies are uniquely advantaged to do that relative to other real estate developers who don't own construction companies.
Speaker 1:I see, and the main reason for that is just for the breadth of knowledge and understanding where the savings can be.
Speaker 2:For sure. Yeah, so there's three things which impact whether or not you make money on a real estate project. One is your purchase price. One is what your cost basis is to develop the land, add value to the land and you can also predict in your estimates roughly what you think the marketplace will be. And then you just build in that buffer so that you can sleep at night. So if the market does turn against you, well you know you're not. You don't have investors banging on your door and projects going into receivership because you need to be smart about it. But construction companies are uniquely set up because they understand building science. They're motivated to make sure that their cost basis doesn't get out of whack.
Speaker 2:They don't look at estimates with rose-colored glasses Like there's a sense of realism there. They can move faster on deals typically than real estate developers just typical real estate developers, which are brokers, lawyers, real estate agents et cetera and they also have amazing networks typically untapped networks that they can leverage if they decide to do real estate Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I would think that, like the tendering process for people who are in it, who have been tendered too, is you got a big network. I mean you see all the people who have been working on these projects over the years and you get to know them. You see them at events and you can see many sub-trades, for instance, working on these things that everyone else has been working on for years. And, yeah, as you can say, that network can be pulled on and utilized pretty quickly.
Speaker 2:It's everything can be pulled on and utilized pretty quickly. It's everything. And also, too, if people want to go and reach out to LPs like limited partners to perhaps come alongside them in their real estate projects which is really important if you really do want to build anything substantial they have great networks of accredited investors who are always looking for opportunities with people they trust.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's the second part. So the first part is that they have to create efficiencies within their business in order to have those gains. To be able to do that, Huge, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we focus, we put a ton of focus on helping our clients build self, true, self-managed companies. And this is really important Because what can happen is people get a little too far out over their skis and they maybe scale too quickly. And then the owner decides to get into real estate. They don't have their cash flow sorted out properly, they may have some issues with staffing, they may have some, you know, their sales forecasts aren't super accurate and then fast forward six months, 12 months. They can get into trouble. So we put a heavy emphasis on making sure that their company is very, very dialed in and then, when it makes sense, we say okay, let's start transitioning your organization into also investing in real estate so that you can do all three of those activities that I mentioned at the same time Add valued assets, buy assets at a price point that gives you a clear path to the upside and operate your company very, very well.
Speaker 1:And so you do this through a coaching and process-driven program.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's kind of four facets to our program that I think are very, very important, and none of them are more important than the other. We work very, very diligently to make sure they all move in sync, and this is what I think every business operator needs to pursue. So we call it the four Cs. So we give people access to a strong community. So anytime they're put into a room, there's always going to be a business operator in there, business operators in there that have already done what they're seeking to do. So if somebody runs a $20 million company or a $10 million company or a $5 million company comes into one of our events, there's always going to be somebody in the room that runs a $60 or $70 million company. For those companies. There's going to be people in the room that runs a 60 or 70 million dollar company. For those companies, um, there's going to be people that have uh in the room, that have um built up significant portfolios and in real estate and also have very sizable construction companies as well. So it's very important to always be in a room with people that um have been where you're going uh and uh, or sorry, what am I trying to say here? They've, um, they're at a place where you're going and or sorry, what am I trying to say here? They've, they're at a place where you're trying to be, and there's also people who are trying to get to a point where you are. So it's really important to have that.
Speaker 2:And then what? One thing that's also really important is when you're trying to grow and scale a company, it's so critical to make sure you have the right consultants around you. So this is how you market, how you build a brand. Who your legal counsel is? Okay, uh, who can? Who really understands construction accounting? Cause that is actually quite complex. People underestimate how complex it is, um, and so we provide those experts in our community. That's one C you want me to keep going to the three C's, two more, let's go for it.
Speaker 1:Three our community. That's one C. You want me?
Speaker 2:to keep going to the other three Cs. Two more, let's go for it. Three more, actually, that's four. Then that's four Cs. Did I say three? Yeah, you said three. Four Cs, okay, yeah, it's four Cs.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, thank you for correcting me on that, all right, okay, we provide content, and what I mean by that is simple, clear systems that have been benchmarked off of companies that already know what good looks like. Okay, it's really important to um, uh and okay, I'm just gonna say it and the date. And now that we have ai everywhere, there's like you type in a chat gpt, how many SOPs are there for a project manager? They'll say there's 45 to 60. Well, I think that's ridiculous, because no one can follow 45 to 60 SOPs. There's eight or nine, like the ones that actually matter.
Speaker 2:Follow Perito's principle 20% of what you do gets you 80% of the results. Look, project managers, there's eight or nine SOPs, that's it, okay. So we give people simple, clear systems that have been benchmarked off of very, very high-performing construction companies already. We help them excel in marketing, sales, operations, financial controls, human resources and leadership. Okay, so that's the content bucket. Yeah, okay. And then we move to the coaching bucket. It's very important when you're an entrepreneur to have a guide come alongside you and help you move along the path to get you to where you want to go, hopefully sooner, with less stress. Okay, so we provide the coaching component, and then there's capital. This is the most important one this is what so many people really underestimate.
Speaker 2:And then when they they turn 60, they look back and go gosh, I wish I knew this back when I was 35 or 45. Okay, so we focus on how to set up your capital stack when you're trying to build wealth, how to build relationships with lenders, how to raise capital from LPs. If you want to do that, it's serious, but if you want to do that, we help people do that. It's extremely important to understand how capital works in this world. Okay, and then finally, selfishly, we also, with very, very select projects that our clients have, we also have a mechanism in place where we want to come inside. When I say selfishly, I'm kind of saying that tongue in cheek we want to come alongside and help them invest in those real estate projects and get them off the ground.
Speaker 1:So you guys are an LP as well. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Cool, very, very select projects, though I hear you that's quite hard to get going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you guys are self-funded that way. Yeah, I hear you that's quite hard to get going, yeah, yeah, and you guys are self-funded that way, yeah, okay, so take us through the um, the community of of people. So I mean, how many companies have you guys worked with so far and how long has this been going for? Right?
Speaker 2:So we work with about 115 people right now, I believe.
Speaker 1:So leaders.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, mostly CEOs. We also for the larger companies that work with us. We also work with what are called their second in commands, or, abbreviated form, their two ICs. Yeah, because that's really important. Once a company gets to being above 15 million and they have a leadership team, the CEO wants us to work with their second in command yeah to help deploy their initiatives. Yeah, so we'll work with both people, or the ceo will say, okay, how do I focus on the vision investing our capital properly? And then their second in command.
Speaker 2:We're focusing on the nuances of what it takes to make their company more efficient right, okay yeah, construction is such a fragmented industry and there's like just so much low hanging fruit to help those companies that are, say, doing 10 million to get up to 20 million and 30 million, and then focusing on operational excellence to help them move past that benchmark as well notice any kind of struggle in the past, like year, with with the community of companies that you're you're dealing with right now.
Speaker 1:Yep, I mean some of them like oh my God, like all those works kind of dried up, or I mean how's things? I mean you said so what's the? What's the? The U? S versus Canadian mix?
Speaker 2:So we work with about it's about 75-25. So 75% of our clients are in the US, 25% are in Canada.
Speaker 1:So how did that happen? Do you have a US operation?
Speaker 2:No, I think what we do typically is more palatable to Americans. Is that why? Well, we say hey guys look Just more uptake. Our focus is to build wealth. Americans love that.
Speaker 1:Canadians don't like that. I don't know, I don't know what it is because we're a. Canadian company. Yeah, so that's weird. So I mean, how did you? What was your like go-to-market strategy? How did you find these companies?
Speaker 2:I mean, did they find you or did you like?
Speaker 1:is it?
Speaker 2:referral based. I mean, how did this all happen? Yeah, so it's word of mouth um, uh, yeah, our, our, um, yeah, we do marketing, outbound marketing. So, yeah, we get lots of our companies through our personal network. Yeah, um, facebook, instagram. We have a little. I've been on some podcasts like this and people just hear about us. We do a lot of work with NHB, chba, various platforms.
Speaker 1:So no secret sauce.
Speaker 2:No secret sauce, just grinding, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So is the cost per company? Does it vary depending on how much revenue they make? No, no, it's just one flat fee, yeah, one flat fee, that's cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one flat fee.
Speaker 1:And the retreat. I'm sorry, yeah.
Speaker 2:And the retreat. Yeah, we do two retreats a year, one in the summer, june, one in January. That's extra, that's extra, yeah, um, but um, our, our price point is such that we have, like I said, um, companies that are doing 70, 80, 90 million a year, and we also have companies that are in two million a year. Because here's the thing, this is the message that we get across to all our companies this isn't a coaching program. This isn't a program where you join up for six months, get some information and jet. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Our mandate is to just provide a service that gives value, um, for a price point that allows you to, uh, stay with us for a long period of time. Because, man, once you get into real estate, you need experts around you. You need people to help you underwrite those deals. Make sure you're doing your due diligence properly. Make sure the lawyers that you're using actually know what they're talking about. Help you vet those people. Help you vet your accountants.
Speaker 2:Help you vet the architects that you're working with? What about when you hire for smaller companies? What about when they hire an operations lead? That's the most important role in any construction company, like the role that gets the owner out of dealing with the jobs. We alongside people and help them with those key decisions, those key linch points that'll help them see those accelerated gains again and again, and again.
Speaker 1:So on the HR side, do you guys help people recruit people like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we actually do work with recruiters that specialize in the construction space. But yeah, man, if you run a construction company or you're hiring, say, a COO, we will definitely come alongside you and help you make that final pick. If you got it down to two or three people.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Okay, cause if you get that wrong, you know it's just. It's just, there's opportunity costs there and getting oh it's huge, that wrong. Yeah, no, it's massive. Yeah, no, like I Alongside you and help you get to the next level.
Speaker 1:Nice, yeah, yeah so. And High Spire has been going for how long?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're coming up on two years now.
Speaker 1:Two years. That's a lot of growth in two years, yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:That's a lot I mean 24,.
Speaker 1:Wow, you got four customers a month.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're.
Speaker 1:Almost five.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, fortunately our retention's great. Like I said, people they love what we do.
Speaker 1:Well, with the pitch that it's not a sprint, it's a marathon.
Speaker 2:It's a marathon, not a sprint. A lot of guilt towards the end of leaving.
Speaker 1:Well, we also Like self-loathing, Like you wouldn't want to give up because you're just about to see the gains. Like year one, one and a half, your retention is good. Because people are like, well, I've been doing this, I've gone to one and a half retreats or whatever that would be and spent this money. We've seen, yeah, business might be tough right now or whatever it is, but I got to stick with this thing because I mean, they have a proven model.
Speaker 2:You asked an interesting question that I wanted to pull a thread on. You said hey, how have people been? What's happened to them in the marketplace recently? Yeah, and we have an action bias to marketing and sales. Anybody listening to this?
Speaker 2:Look, and I said this already construction is a fragmented space. I guarantee you your competition is probably not very effective at building a good brand, deploying that brand through efficient marketing tactics and then closing customers. It's very fragmented, and so we actually have an action bias with our clients in doing that. Very well, and even though, yes, it was tough, but most of our clientele because I keep track of how most of our organizations are doing through our reporting systems most of them actually fared significantly better than the rest of the marketplace because as soon as they join marketing and sales immediately, like we sort that out you build a plane while you're flying, look, building your op system 80-20.
Speaker 2:Okay, like we can tell you look, this is the simple stuff that's going to make your operations efficient, but you need that market wind. And so when people join up into our program, like I said, we just get into their marketing sales right away and we figure out how we can give them a thick cash pipeline. That's everything. It's a lot more fun to run a company when you're flush with work and you're just figuring out what to hire people and SOPs and making things more efficient, than it is in a company where you don't know where the work's going to come from. Okay, so I kind of went on a tangent there. No, I hear you.
Speaker 2:I hope anyone listening to this focuses on the marketing and sales because I guarantee you their competition is probably not doing that very well. There's a huge opportunity out there for construction companies to focus on this.
Speaker 1:Well, the marketing and sales is a very difficult thing in the business, in this business, because the sales cycle's long.
Speaker 2:It is yeah.
Speaker 1:And the. You need a shorter sales cycle to be able to pay top talent. Can you elaborate on that? Yeah, because great salespeople and great networkers are going to go in industries where they can have immediate results to be able to create revenue for themselves. They're not going to stick around for. Oh yeah. Well, I talked to this guy eight years ago or three months ago or six months ago or however long ago, and they finally got the deal. And by the time they got that I was like I'm on to the next thing.
Speaker 2:I think I disagree with you okay yeah, I actually think there's a wonderful opportunity for people.
Speaker 1:I didn't say there wasn't an opportunity, I'm just saying the mindset of okay, really, I seriously really lightning hot sales people is yeah, like with roofing companies, they just want to see like well, I mean roofing's a bit different.
Speaker 1:But I'm talking like if you were let's say you were a um, you know you're, you're looking for your uh, your next, your next jobs, your next, let's say your gc. Right, let's say you were a, you know you're looking for your next jobs, your next, let's say your GC. Right, let's say you're doing 20, 30 million bucks and you're looking for so you can go to the developers and say, hey, you know, can we? They'll say, well, yeah, we've got some projects coming up and you can bid on them, et cetera. But you know, one's coming 2026, one's 2027.
Speaker 1:Salespeople, they keep going to these events, they keep doing the stuff. They're like well, I can't make a commission yet. So they say to the business operator I need a bigger base because I can't See what I mean. So the base becomes big. And when the base becomes big, then what happens? The pressure becomes high, mm-hmm, because they're like hey, I've been paying you X amount of dollars every month. Where's the results? It's like well, I'm planting seeds here and plants are growing at different stages based on the seed count lead count.
Speaker 2:So, respectfully, if I had a construction company say that, I would probably spend some time looking at how they're nurturing their leads and opportunities in the marketplace and what that funnel looked like, because there is an element of predictability that you can inject into your organization and a good business developer or a good sales manager should be able to do that so they can generally say, like high end, low end range, this is what we can expect as far as jobs closing. Yeah, and if they haven't figured out that formula with clarity, where if I'm just being totally blunt if I like personally call up that company and talk to that guy, he can tell me in 30 seconds, within six months, what their high, low, high range of closing should be. If they can't do that, then there's probably an opportunity to they need you guys.
Speaker 2:Improve their well, yeah, yeah, they do.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean this is a good conversation. This is the reason we're going through this stuff. I am just giving the baseline. I mean it's not necessarily for construction, just in sales in general, totally, yeah, I mean it's kind of that paradigm. But so High Spire the name, which is just like the tallest peak on a building where everyone aspires to be the high point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wanted something that was cool. Did you come up with a name? You know what? I didn't. So there's a brilliant, brilliant brand builder named Jesse Campbell. He runs a company called Love Money. They're based in Victoria and Australia. They came up with it. If I'm being totally honest, I wish I was smart enough to come up with this name, but I came up with what we're doing and then they came up with the name, and then I had to pay a bunch of money to get the URL.
Speaker 1:Was it an instant? I love that.
Speaker 2:Or did it take a while for you to get used to it? Oh no, no, I just. I was with my wife and my best friend and it was like nine o'clock at night and the email came in the email came in and I looked at it and I was like that one and they said, yeah, oh, that one.
Speaker 1:So you had something to choose from. Yeah, okay yeah, interesting. There's some other ones to choose from that's cool, yeah, um, so I I'm always interested in, like the and I think everyone is is the origin story of. I mean, what were you doing before this?
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So got a degree in engineering, got my professional engineering certification. I always say to our clients don't hold that against me. I think every owner of a construction company has run-ins with engineers. I tried my best to be one of the good ones to work with. I really appreciate what people go through to put these projects together. But yeah, so I worked in commercial construction for years, worked in China, worked all over the US Houston, seattle, wisconsin, utah, throughout Western Canada and then got married in 2016. And my wife said, hey, you travel way too much for a husband. And I said you have a really good point. So then I thought, hey, why don't we get into business coaching and I can work from home?
Speaker 1:But that's 2016, though that's 2016,.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then I started business coaching.
Speaker 2:And and then, uh, worked with a number of cool companies and then I noticed that the ones that built up a lot of wealth Okay, okay, there's kind of two buckets. There are ones that ran a good business and so they would go from 5 million one year to 6 million, the million the next year, and $6.5, and then $5.8 and then $7.3. And they'd increase their net profit percentage from $8 to $9 to $11 and $15 if they were doing very, very well. And that's fine, good, they're about as successful as a dentist. There's nothing wrong with that, by the way. They're in the top percentile of how companies improve relative to the marketplace. And then I also worked with commercial GCs that started at 10 and then went up to 20 and 30 and 40 and just kept growing. But I noticed the ones that built up real wealth, like wealth that would change the trajectory of where their grandchildren are heading in life. They got into real estate too and they use their construction companies to be real estate developers.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so we thought let's start a company that focuses on that. Okay, because just increasing revenue and increasing net profit percentage is fine. There's a massive opportunity out there for construction companies.
Speaker 1:We want them to capitalize on that, so that was the first vector then that was the first vector, yeah Right and then you obviously needed bucket number two or two parts to it, which was you need to be efficient in order to be able to have that capital, to be able to do those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's cool, yeah, yeah. So then, was that your? How long were you doing so? From 2016, so, let's say, two years you've been going now, so 2023, 2016 to 2023, that's quite a bit of time Seven years there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Of general coaching of any kind of company Construction companies.
Speaker 1:They were construction companies.
Speaker 2:Was it High Spire, then no, something else, right, yeah? So I was working for another organization and then just decided it was time to go out on my own. Okay, cool Story for another time, gotcha.
Speaker 1:Fair enough. There always is. So that's pretty cool, Like that ideation of like the why, the why people do things, I think is very, very important and you've been resolute on that focus for since you started. Yeah, Because the benefit is so must be so rewarding, right, Seeing people you know actually have something.
Speaker 2:Oh man, you know, like our clients are great. You know they come in and we give them like the ones that are running 50 million dollar juggernauts, or you know ones that are doing four or five million a year you, we, we spend so much time when they come into the program, really understanding, okay, what did your path look like for your company? And when you chart that path out for them and say, okay, low end, high end, this is what you can expect over the next two to three years, and then five, you see the light bulb go on and we chart that path for them and you see, okay, now I get it. And then when it starts to work and they look at the rest of the marketplace I'm just being honest they look at the rest of the marketplace and their friends are, oh, I'm running out of work and everything. They're like it's a tough market but we're getting through. And then now the marketplace is turning around and one guy I was just talking to he did a real estate deal. He's going to make a million dollars on it, no problem.
Speaker 2:When we underwrote the deal. That's great. Is that a US deal?
Speaker 1:so it's turning around there definitely not so much here.
Speaker 2:I'm seeing it turn around here too, with our Canadian companies where well, so most of our companies are in Alberta, vancouver. They're in commercial construction, a couple are in Victoria and some are in Toronto, but we are looking at because we forecast all their cash flow and we are seeing it starting to improve.
Speaker 1:Is this tariff supply chain thing a big problem? We?
Speaker 2:are seeing it starting to improve. Is this tariff supply chain thing a big problem? No, no, no. Surprisingly, you know what I mean. The news is Fear mongering. Oh man, yeah, they just catastrophize everything. It's actually not Like if you talk to a lot of your suppliers like why are lead times so crazy? Well, because they're supplying to the US.
Speaker 1:Hmm.
Speaker 2:At least that's what we've seen.
Speaker 1:I might be totally wrong, but that's my own anecdotal experience on this. They're busy, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not impacting as much as CBC News is telling us yeah it's interesting, you know, where we see, like, housing seems to be just this. It's just a big loud conversation all the time Housing, housing, housing, housing, people, people, immigration, immigration. Where is everyone going to live? Blah, blah, blah. How do we get rents lower? How does people afford a house? Generation can't afford places. Baby boomers are going to be giving the kids all their money, like I mean, it's just this is the loud conversation that's going on all the time. Yeah, and what you're saying is is that there's all this other construction stuff that's going on. That's like over here, yeah, yeah, but so in Vancouver, how many customers do you have here, do you think? Do you call them clients, customers, what do you call?
Speaker 2:them. We like to call them clients Clients. Okay, they are our clients. I do like to you know, in the engineering world, we call our customers clients because we do everything we can to make them successful, and that's our mandate too. Yeah, yeah, in Vancouver, here, oh gosh, 20 or so You're putting me on the spot but probably less than 10, I think.
Speaker 1:Oh, less than 10. Based in Vancouver? Yeah, right, yeah. And from those, how often do you meet with them?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's full on. Yeah, we meet with them once a week.
Speaker 1:Okay, so during that once a week do you hear anything like well, what's your pulse on on where construction is in Vancouver specifically?
Speaker 2:So, again, this is like the Vancouver market is massive. It's absolutely massive. Our clients are working in three, um, three, three areas. So one is um, uh, like. They're like they're working for the school board or bc housing yeah, okay. Or they're working with um larger institutions that are putting up, say, um like, uh, storage facilities that have a lot of freezer capacity for food storage, or they're building $1,500 per square foot monstrosities out in West Vancouver.
Speaker 2:We have noticed that they're that's not true. Actually we have companies that work on smaller projects, but we have noticed that it has gotten easier. It's like there is this shock that hit the market Trump got elected, tariffs, the news wars, all around the world, people were a little bit more gun shy about spending money and now we're starting to see, with companies that have good brands, efficient sales cycles, good credibility in the marketplace, that a lot of those projects are starting to come to fruition. Now it's like people are just getting just recognizing this is the world that we're in and we still. Time is moving past us and this is the thing I think customers are learning that it's not going to get cheaper ever. No, it's not getting cheaper. So cheaper Ever no, it's not getting cheaper. So the stock market just turned around a bit. So people are starting to.
Speaker 1:A bit yeah.
Speaker 2:It's ripping.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So take me through that little. That part I always talk about this is the cheaper part Is it's never getting cheaper. So at some point don't we all here in Canada specifically have to earn more If it's not going to get cheaper? Like if for somebody to rent a two-bedroom condo downtown, let's say, or Burnaby, and it's going to cost them $4,500 a month, that's what it's going to cost For something new anyway, let's say $3,500 to $4,500 a month, the kind of job. They have to have to have that just for their rent. That's not including all the other stuff. They have to have to have that just for their rent and that's not including all the other stuff they have. Don't you think we, if it's only when you say it's only going to get more expensive, it's not getting cheaper? I mean, the opposite of that is it's only going to get more expensive. How do we reconcile that? How do people make it in general? Do they all move into construction? Everyone makes a lot of money there, but I don't know. I mean, I think I think we're in a. We're in a weird spot right now where, you know, I.
Speaker 1:I remember when the federal election was happening. I remember going to a, a, a Polly of rally, and he was saying going to a poly of rally and he was saying, oh, we're going to bring the prices of homes down. I mean, I liked a lot of the stuff he said but I was like what's the plan there, because I couldn't quite figure out. So what are we going to do? Is suddenly steel going to be less, concrete, going to cost less? We're going to pay people less? How? How is it going to be less Concrete going to cost less? We're going to pay people less. How? How is it going to be less? Okay, sure, maybe you can have some gains in terms of holding times, how long it takes to do a project, efficiencies there, cities, permits that can be cheaper so that it's not like a crazy amount of money per door just for holding costs. Sure, you could do that there. But on balance, how is it going to be cheaper?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:This is a very touchy subject how touchy.
Speaker 2:Well, we had an event recently and Mike Campbell from Money Talks came.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And I had a chance to sit down with anyone in Vancouver knows who he is, and he's quite a famous economist in Canada. Um, and we talked about this. What do you do? I grew up in a home that my parents owned, and my mother, you know her full-time job was working with us. Four kids, yeah, and my father worked for BC Hydro.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Good luck finding that now. All right, so we are seeing an evisceration of the middle class?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and yeah, I.
Speaker 2:I, I, I don't know, like I'm not the, I don't, I don't understand. I don't know, like I'm not the, I don't, I don't understand. I don't know what the solution is. All I can do is personally you and I talked about this when we came in like, what's your mission? The mission is okay. With the people that we work with in construction, we know how to build wealth. We know how to build wealth. I don't know how to do this with somebody who's making $75,000 a year working in another industry, but I do know how to help construction companies at least the owners of those companies help their staff to beat the curve. That's the audience that I can speak to. And yeah, I mean I talked to michael campbell and he just said, yeah, this is up to me working with the politicians to help um bring back more opportunity and more international investment into canada, because right now, yeah, it's not there it's the dead zone I you know my friend is just talking to on Wall Street.
Speaker 2:And again we talked about that and he said it's just him and it might not be a factor with other people. But he said if I pick up the phone and tell some of our investors and our fund that we want to invest in Canada, they won't pick up my call next time that's sad man.
Speaker 1:It is sad because this place is awesome. It's so yeah, I mean so resource rich.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, it's incredible. I mean, the conversation went down a weird thread there. But I mean, you know, mental health is a commitment to reality at all costs, and that's the reality we're dealing with as business operators here. But I think there's massive opportunity if you own a construction company in Canada.
Speaker 1:Can I ask you something on the mental health side of things? Sure, because I had a. I did a session with Angelo and John Luca and they they're, they're all about mental health. That's the human project there. That's Angelo's book.
Speaker 2:I was going to ask you about that. You should take that Cool, I will.
Speaker 1:Thank you, he's awesome. We talked about the mental health of construction people in terms of the value stack. As you go all the way through from CEO all the way down to someone cleaning up a site, so that entire chain through there, mental health is. It's not like once you get past the field and it goes into the office and people are behind computers, it doesn't mean mental health stops. Mental health goes all the way through the chain and what we seem to be only focusing on is the site, people, their mental health. We're not talking about the whole company's mental health. And for some reason, like if you've got a PM who's dealing with four projects, because, for whatever reason, they're totally overworked, overstressed, all that kind of stuff that person's probably struggling. So what I try and bifurcate is what is the threshold of what we consider life is hard versus mental health? So I know that because I know for a fact that there are people who run construction companies that are totally ahead of their skis, that are having dark thoughts. Yeah For sure. Yeah, because their whole life is involved in that thing. Totally, totally Right. And so does their mental health not count? Oh, it's because they have huge opportunity. It doesn't get addressed. Is that why Because the upside is so good you got to suck it up. Is that what that is? Well, I think we have a huge thing to deal with here. There needs to be a big, big conversation of the people, everybody having a sense of well-being all the way through the value chain. And I don't really know where that starts. So maybe from your perspective, when you're dealing with your clients, their turnover that happens on their self-performance side, or maybe it's with a sub-trade, you know, in some of the lower per-hour jobs and then not even salary jobs. Some of that just work per-hour stuff. The turnover there because of life circumstances. It's a very unique thing.
Speaker 1:In construction, yeah, mostly because of the fact that there are very few industries that you can walk up to hoarding, knock on it and talk to somebody who can hire you and say I need a job. Where else can you do that? You can't even walk into a bank now without an appointment. You can't. The whole front line of everything now is behind a veil almost. You've got to get a key card to get upstairs. You can't just go to a reception. Everything is blocked off in the rest of the world for people to get jobs, but construction because it's out in the open and you can see the people and you can identify it as they have a busy vest on, you know who they are.
Speaker 1:So, because of the fact that it is a place where people can come for opportunity, who come from varying life circumstances, it brings along this mental health conundrum of key issues which a lot of people have, stuff that's very hard to fix.
Speaker 1:Young people who have made strange decisions it might not have been their fault, whatever circumstances and now they're like I need help and they're looking to these companies for guidance, for it's their tribe, it's their people, it's their thing and they want an opportunity. Some people don't even know the opportunity that they have and some might even see this as just a temporary job for some other kind of fantasy that they have, and some might even see this as just a temporary job for some other kind of fantasy that they have. So I know this is a long, long essay here on this side of things, but from the coaching side, how do you see that mental health strata of focus between those different stratas, so right at the top brass, middle management, all the way down through the field, how do you guys address how people's mental state is For?
Speaker 2:sure. Well, first of all, I think in any business landscape, the default or the assumption is that companies are going to put their priorities this way Money, customers, staff. We always tell our clients it's the other way around. It's staff, customers and then money will come. That's the first thing. You put your staff first. That is your number one priority. Hire based on core values that's a whole podcast episode on its own. Hire based on core values and focus on building a good culture. Okay. And then every person in your company absolutely must be given the opportunity to improve their lives, and we do this through mandating with our clients, professional development programs with their team. And there's two aspects of a professional development program. There's one okay, I'm going to go from being like a laborer to a carpenter, to a site super or I'm just going to increase my skillset.
Speaker 2:That's what we focus on. We don't. That's not about promotion, it's about increasing your skillset, or office admin, office manager, or just increasing their skillset. That's one bucket. But then, with the professional development program, there's also a life development program that we have in our content, where the leadership team in the company gives their staff a very clear path to improving their life and lots of other domains finance what they do with their free time, what they do with their health, what they do with their spirituality. Okay, um, and and, and. Then what they'll do is hold that person accountable every quarter to improving in those areas, if they want it, and a lot of staff, from what we've seen at least, actually say, wow, no one's ever taken the time to care about this. And then the company gives them resources to improve in that area.
Speaker 2:We've seen organizations say like okay, you know you're making X amount as a carpenter, x amount as our office admin. What is your financial goal? How can we help you with this? Okay, and just put it out in the open. What do you want? What is your vision for your life? Um, health, health-wise. Do you want to spend more time with your kids? Okay, cause then all of a sudden, um just say it.
Speaker 2:If you want to spend more time with your kids and we're making you work 55 hours a week because it's crazy right now well, let's just put it out there your priority is more time with your family.
Speaker 1:We'll make those adjustments.
Speaker 2:You just put it out in the open and then it goes back to my quote. Mental health is a commitment to reality at all costs, because now a lot of the staff have seen that vision for their life put on paper say that one more time. Mental health is the commitment to reality at all costs, to unpack that for a second.
Speaker 2:so, um, any, any.
Speaker 2:If you ever work with a life coach, typically what they'll do is they'll unpack what's happening in your life right now and there's things that are latent in everybody's subconscious that is causing anxiety and causing stress, and a good life coach will help you understand what that is.
Speaker 2:Not everybody has the time or they believe in life coaching to go and take those steps for their life, but a system that will actually ask the right questions what does a good financial future look like for you? What do you value in life? Where do you want to be health wise? We'll at least move the needle in that direction so that if any of those domains are out of whack, the individual will understand oh, this might be what's causing my anxiety, because now they have clearly identified it and therefore they're healthier mentally because they're able to address the situation and bring it out in the open rather than just let these. They're not seeing their kids for years on end and they just like I've seen lots of people do that where the dad's just working a million hours and their health is failing.
Speaker 1:Can I ask you about this up-and-coming generation? Do you think or would you add some credence to this that social media over the years has created more of not necessarily a personality profile of this, but more of a vector of narcissism, like the me me me thing? Yeah, the only reason I ask that is because the conversation of where do you want to go, what do you want to do with your career, how can we help you? There has, year by year, been an increase in people's ability to be able to see long term. They're always like it's a now thing, it's a now like. They see people the Jake Pauls or the whoever being able to just make millions of dollars just doing videos. They don't see the hundreds of thousands of other millions of them that don't make that money. They just think it's possible and we're told anything's possible.
Speaker 1:All the time you go on TikTok, it's like this is how you can do this. This is your dreams, this is all about you. You have to believe in yourself, all of these things. And then they go to their construction job and someone's like so tell me, over the next eight years, where are we going to go with this? Someone's like eight years. There's this. There needs to be a reality check with compassion to be able to show people away that that other stuff is a fugazi. It's like you could if someone's done it. It's possible, Everyone knows that right, but the chances is lottery ticket-ish.
Speaker 2:You're probably not going to be happy if you get there too. That's true.
Speaker 1:So you know where I'm going with this. It's a challenge for us to bring everyone together. Not all of those conversations are going to be as easy with everyone who's on a job site, but yeah, I mean, I think that the thing that keeps me optimistic is that, like we said before doing this episode, it's construction is this last bastion of opportunity.
Speaker 2:It really is.
Speaker 1:Like I think if people could, just if parents can get out of their own heads that their kid doesn't need to go and get a degree and all the ologies and end up with nothing, and you know, they maybe even if they did save up for their college, right? Well, if you want to go in there and go and micro target exactly what you want out of there, awesome, go do that. But if you're going to do that because you're like, oh wow, I saw a movie and this is what it's like to be on campus, it's like, is this the reason you want to go for like a four-year holiday with some school? No, but you talk to those same parents and they're like, well, you're not going to go in construction, are you? You have a college fund here. Why would we do that?
Speaker 1:That needs to change. It's changing. I think it is evolutions in how industries become more sophisticated over time, because there's this sort of blue collar thing that it's been since the beginning of time. You know jobs that are hard and you've got to be tough and you've got to do all these things and it takes some brawn sometimes and you know you can't wear a suit to the job site. You know, you've got to wear clothes that don't get torn. You got to wear gloves, hard hat, different, very different thing. It's professional, though. That's what I'm saying. So what the evolution is happening behind the scenes is the professionalism is hyper-increasing. Over the past I'm going to say eight years, eight to 10 years the professionalism has hockey stick, and that's where I think the brand of construction needs to actually look at what it is, because people have a preconceived notion.
Speaker 2:That is inaccurate. And just looking at, I can name so many companies. Any like you mentioned parents, any parents looking at those companies would say oh, you know what? Maybe this is a good career for my son or my daughter? Yeah, just because there's so much opportunity out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just because there's so much opportunity out there and once you're in, like you get an entry-level job at a lead core or a PCL or one of these big companies or a big sub you're not going to be looking for a job after that even if you don't like where you're working. After a couple of years.
Speaker 2:You're going to be wanted. Lessons in life 101,. Man, you can work for those companies. Actually, you know beautiful company that works with us. Their owner worked at PCL for quite a while. He's brilliant. He learned all kinds of wonderful, wonderful skills.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know you were talking about, uh, I think, cheap dopamine. Uh, there's a, a great quote that I'm going to paraphrase, by a guy named nival ravi khan, and he said the future is going to be owned by people who are able to resist cheap dopamine. He said it much more eloquently. I'm paraphrasing yeah, but I really believe that, um, and, and you know what I say, all you need to do is go out of cell phone reception for three or four or five days and then come back in and you'll just be like, oh, wow, all this stuff that was important to me on LinkedIn or Instagram or Facebook, I don't really care about. I just enjoyed sitting by the lake with my tent and my five and four year old and my wife five and four year old and my wife, so let's look at the next five years.
Speaker 1:What do you see as the big opportunity in construction for your clients and also for people listening to this? You obviously want as many people in your community as possible. Do you have a capacity problem?
Speaker 2:No, we put an action bias towards not growth. We put an action bias towards hiring great people who work for us and then we grow once we bring them in.
Speaker 1:So you're kind of pinned right now. The customers or the clients you have.
Speaker 2:No, we have capacity. We have a really good recruitment funnel, with um great people that are coming on board.
Speaker 1:So so what is the, what is, in your opinion, the opportunity for these companies? Uh, to join your, your tribe of high achievers, high spires.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's actually I like that. So I think there's a wonderful opportunity. I think construction is a fragmented industry. It's going to continue to be a fragmented industry and I think it's a wonderful opportunity to go in and improve and see accelerated gains for and just pick off a little bit of low-hanging fruit and level up your companies. I think there's a massive opportunity in the middle market in real estate Huge the middle market is kind of above what your typical heart surgeon can afford, but too cheap for a big fund to worry about. And I think there's also a massive opportunity with AI and VAs to increase overhead efficiency. Any companies that aren't utilizing those two components and how they operate are crazy. Like there's no reason you have to build out these massive teams anymore. You can do so much with artificial intelligence and virtual assistants now to increase the value of the seats that you have working for you yeah and thereby improve their lives and ultimately build your company up so that you do hire more, more people too.
Speaker 1:But yeah yeah yeah, well, that's pretty cool, yeah, I mean it's a.
Speaker 2:I'm so optimistic for the future. I mean mean all these things about people say I always hear AI, private equity, the labor shortage, the economy. Honestly, I don't think those things are going to turn into these black swan events that are going to totally turn the construction industry upside down. I see nothing but opportunity over the next five years and, yeah, I feel just so blessed to be a part of it. And and yeah, I feel, um, uh, just so blessed to be a part of it and I think anyone in the industry is is just going to really enjoy the ride over the next decade.
Speaker 1:Well, this has been awesome, Paul the uh. What's the expensive URL? What's that the expensive URL? Highspirecom?
Speaker 2:Is that what?
Speaker 1:you got. Yeah yeah, that's. That's a good one. Yeah, yeah, so people can get hold of you highspirecom, is that what you?
Speaker 2:got. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's a good one. Yeah, yeah, so people can get hold of you. Highspirecom paul atherton on linkedin yeah, I'm on linkedin. Yeah, yeah, and our company's on instagram and facebook and all that but yeah, videos of stuff of your retreats and all that oh, yeah, yeah, all that stuff's on youtube.
Speaker 1:Instagram account on instagram. Okay, what's the instagram handle? Uh it's just highspire I.
Speaker 2:I think it's High Spire Official.
Speaker 1:Official. Oh yeah, I know you're a celebrity. It's like a band, it's like, hey, this is not the fake ones. Yeah, guys, come on.
Speaker 2:Very serious, and then you can message I'm always.
Speaker 1:I'm very active on for the four days.
Speaker 2:That's right. If I don't, respond to you in four days we're out camping or something like that.
Speaker 1:Well, that's cool. Yeah, all right, paul, this has been awesome. I've really enjoyed the interaction and the cerebral conversation about a lot of these topics. You handle them pretty well. It was pretty awesome.
Speaker 2:This was super fun, james, so glad I came over.
Speaker 1:Thanks, man. Cheers, Awesome Cheers. Well, that does it for another episode of the Site Visit. Thank you for listening. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube. You can also sign up for our monthly newsletter at sitemaxsystemscom slash the site visit, where you'll get industry insights, pro tips and everything you need to know about the Site Visit podcast and Sitemax, the job site and construction management tool of choice for thousands of contractors in North America and beyond. Sitemax is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building.