The SiteVisit

Building Communities in Construction with Rick Wagner, President at Maxwell Floors

• James Faulkner • Season 6 • Episode 172

Share episode

Send us a text

Rick Wagner, President of Maxwell Floors and a 43-year construction veteran, tackles the tough conversations our industry needs.

The cultural disconnect between developers' passion and field workers' daily grind manifests in concerning ways. Mental health claims sometimes mask a deeper lack of commitment, while the housing crisis creates a profound sense of disconnection when workers can't afford what they're building.

Decades ago, homeownership required roughly ten years of income; now, it demands closer to thirty. This shift challenges traditional expectations and forces a reevaluation of career and financial planning. The rise of instant gratification has also shortened career outlooks, reducing five-year plans to six-month horizons.

Yet solutions emerge through community-building efforts that bring trades together. Rick advocates for leadership with genuine altruism, earlier education about construction careers, and better management of expectations while showcasing the legitimate financial opportunities that exist for committed professionals.

This conversation explores how young workers might consider alternative paths—perhaps securing that recreational property first while renting—and why immigration brings motivated individuals who recognize the opportunities in trades. Rick reminds us that construction offers viable paths forward for those willing to believe in themselves, plan for the future, and commit to the work.

PODCAST INFO:
the Site Visit Website: https://www.sitemaxsystems.com/podcast
the Site Visit on Buzzsprout: https://thesitevisit.buzzsprout.com/269424
the Site Visit on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-site-visit/id1456494446
the Site Visit on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5cp4qJE5ExZmO3EwldN1HH

FOLLOW ALONG:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thesitevisit
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesitevisit

Speaker 1:

All right, I am here with Rick Wagner of Maxwell Floors. President, how long have you been doing?

Speaker 2:

this for Rick. Oh my gosh, 1981. I started as an installer 1981. You want to go all the way forward? That's about 43 years. Wow, yes, wow.

Speaker 1:

You saw Expo. You saw the whole thing. Did not see Expo. You didn't see it. Where were you?

Speaker 2:

I was away in Switzerland doing a flooring apprenticeship for three years in Zurich, Switzerland.

Speaker 1:

Wow, yeah, from the Swiss, from the Swiss, no wonder you're so good at, it have to be organized. We were just talking about, like on the past podcast, why the Swiss and Germans are so good at engineering. It's just a culture thing, right.

Speaker 2:

It's just a culture thing Very regimented, regimented, yeah, very regimented, regimented, yeah, a bit dry, a bit dry, but when it comes to being organized and having a routine, they have a routine and they also have research and development that allows you to try new things within an organization, even in an apprenticeship. We could come up with ideas and if we made it better, they would shift right on the spot.

Speaker 1:

And they have like eight weeks holiday mandated by the government. Oh, that's for sure.

Speaker 2:

Actually you'd have a 13-month wage, so you know you.

Speaker 1:

Didn't those things make a huge difference, right? They do, absolutely, because we're not doing any of that here in Canada. No, what do you think it is that we here's? The strange observation is that, according to I don't know what statistic this is, I don't know who came up with this number, but apparently Canadians are 60% as productive as Americans. Keep hearing this, right, and yet you would think that the Swiss model or the French model or the of having lots of vacations that they would be the ones, would be 60%. But we don't even give, we don't even do the fun part, and we're still sucking wind here.

Speaker 1:

So what do you think? Is this a cultural thing? Where are we at with things like we're we? I really wanted to chat with you specifically and this isn't necessarily for you to provide me an example of culture in your company, etc. But I think you're pretty good at asking the basic litmus test of construction in general British Columbia, canada when are we at in terms of morale, leadership, etc. Where do you see the gaps and holes and what's the opportunities Gaps?

Speaker 2:

and holes. Very yeah, we've been witnessing that ever since this thing called the iPhone came along. The iPhone, like let's go back to it. If you want to see kids I mean those kids that I see that are in a restaurant and we go out and they're coloring with crayons. They're going to have the creativity mind. You know, you've got this technology that's taking over where kids have this technology in front of them and they're losing their creativity. So how can we ask them to be critical thinkers later in life if we are just taking the relaxed mode of not doing the right thing? And the right thing is it's got to be difficult, and by difficult I mean it's not easy to be a parent, but also we're not, as leaders, we can't be hiding either. We need to get out there. We need to. You know we talked a little earlier about different things. We've got to open up the can of worms. We've got to make our teams heard.

Speaker 1:

What are the can of worms? To double click on that specifically.

Speaker 2:

Can of worms. Mental well-being, health. I mean there's some individuals really taking advantage of it and it's a concern. We know who they are within our own company. But I'm hearing this from trade contractors across Canada being, as a national advisory to the board, just not totally committed. They're going to work nine to five or the eight to four and they're just doing their job. They're not being proactive, they're not really too interested in trying to make it better. It's a job, it pays the bills and I'm not really going anywhere, so I'm going to live in the moment and that comes along with not saving. Some of my concerns with with that other can of worms are technology on the job site. They're wanting to have music all the time and but they're doing it through earbuds. So now we have health and safety concerns oh yeah, so we have individuals that are very self-centered.

Speaker 2:

They're not being part of the community on site. It's very individualistic. Or before we would be learning all the time, somebody would walk over and say, hey, there's a better way to do this. You know, why don't you hold this hammer in your right hand instead of your left? There's an easier way to use this tool. Okay, we're not seeing that happen now, and I'm whether it be a mechanical trade, whether it be a window, roofing, excavation- so this is what you're hearing out there this is what we're hearing is some of this is what we're seeing when I walk on site.

Speaker 2:

I mean, we're fortunate enough to do site visits. We've got to do inspections, quality control, and you can ask you know, why is that? Have you been following the plans? No, actually I left the work order in my car, but this is how I did it on my last project. Oh, I see so there's a lot of lack of commitment to really getting involved. They're just there to do their, they're just there to show up. Sometimes we feel it's just, they're just a body on site. Okay. And that's a very unfortunate thing.

Speaker 1:

So I've talked about this and tried to conceptualize the reason for this. From a macro level, construction is often people having to execute on someone else's passion. Just hear me out with this. You have either a developer or a property owner or somebody who has their dream on this project, right, okay, they're somewhat insulated from natural how much work it is to actually see that thing through but they have this glistening plan that they've made. That's been this dream. They go to sleep at night. They're like, ah, I can't wait until this project gets built and they're all excited about. It's all glitzy and glassy and beautiful. Now, that's that person's passion. As you keep going down the chain of production, all the way down to the field workers to show up and clock in their time and do something perhaps dull, dirty or dangerous right, the transfer of that person is executing the passion of this person up here and they don't have that same passion. It hasn't transcended down through the line and there's a number of factors of the reason why that might not be the passion of that person. Obviously they're not going to and obviously they're not going to.

Speaker 1:

We have got to a point where there is a housing crisis here, specifically in British Columbia, where many people who are working on jobs think that they will never be able to even live in the thing they're building. Right, and I'm not talking the butterfly here at $3,000 a square foot. I'm talking, you know, a six-story stick-built condo in Abbotsford even. Still, I don't even know how I would get a down payment. I don't know. I've gone through four different construction companies over the past two years. I don't know. I've gone through four different construction companies over the past two years. I don't have a solid job. So there becomes this discontent there, from the person with the passion down to the person that has to execute the job. So do you think that? What do you think about that paradigm?

Speaker 2:

It's a big paradigm. I mean, you've got young people looking at developers and we don't necessarily need to single them out because developers themselves. They put a lot of energy and effort and investment and time and learning to make this profit, and profit's not a dirty word. What's required.

Speaker 2:

It's necessary if we're going to continue. We have an apprentice that wants to start. It's very difficult when you have an industry that's looked upon as the fallback. Oh, I wasn't smart enough to go to university. Yeah, it's interesting you say that, so we have that in Europe. I mean, we talked a little bit about Europe and New Zealand.

Speaker 2:

The trades are respected and we've talked about this in another podcast. It's the respect of the trades, but it's a belief in your own system. It's a belief in you that you know what I can do this and that develops the passion. So you have to. Really, the culture in these different project sites can give you great quality, great control and build it up. You're getting to have barbecues on site, so teams are getting to know each other better. We're going back to what was really working back in the day. We're having food trucks that are showing up now and one company is paying for that and a week later you're having a full barbecue. So we're bringing people together. They're not working in isolation. We have to eliminate, in my opinion, we have to eliminate this isolation. It's becoming a real concern.

Speaker 2:

These kids are going home, and when I say kids, I'm talking young people and young people coming into the trades. Nowadays, some of them have worked through their skip the dishes and been servers and all of that, and so they're getting into construction a little later on in life and it's 30, 35. And they go oh wow, I can make some good money and I still maybe have the possibility of owning a home. Yeah, where back in the day it maybe took 10 years of your income or 10 years of income earning that you could afford a home. Now it's going to be 30 years At least, at least.

Speaker 2:

But if we were going to look at some nations as well, is it necessary? Why is it the government's responsibility to say that I need to be able to own a house? There are countries where 80% of the population rents. They're having these eight 10-week holidays a year. Their car may be the status symbol. They're having these eight ten week holidays a year. Their car may be the status symbol. So they're living a very good life. If everybody wants to own an apartment or a house, is that my responsibility? I think my responsibility in society is to make sure that we pay our taxes. People are educated, we have health care for them, but when it comes to housing, I don't think it's my Well and I talk amongst other peers. Is it really my responsibility or our responsibility that everybody has to own a house? I don't think so. I think to have a secure place with a roof over their head. They have a job, they can go to work and they're going to have those vacations, they're looked after, they got medical and dental and they can save for the future.

Speaker 1:

That's in whatever capacity they want to.

Speaker 2:

Whatever capacity they want to. But at the end, yeah, I mean that's going to stir some people and say you know that's not right.

Speaker 1:

No, I get you because I think that. Do you want a bubbly by the way? Drink I'm good. Okay, but this is the expectation that we've set. We have set an expectation.

Speaker 2:

And it's uncomfortable, and it's uncomfortable.

Speaker 1:

But also the reason for the owning versus renting thing, I think here anyway, is the fact that rent is so expensive. Rent is crazy Comparative to Comparative to those other places, because if you're a local in some of those European countries, your rent is less.

Speaker 2:

Well, we also have to look at, you know and comparing is a dangerous thing, because if we're looking at countries in Europe, they're much smaller, so transportation is already in place, so you may not need to own a vehicle to get there If you want to say I need some affordability of rent and you're going to live in Chilliwack and you're going to.

Speaker 2:

it's going to be $1,000 less for you to live in Chilliwack than it is to live in Kitsilano downtown. But you now are sitting in your car for two hours a day and you're paying an extra $100 a gas a week. So now we've got $400 in fuel costs, let alone the wear and tear on your car, and you've got five days in the week that you've just paid have another 10 hours. So that's 40 hours and you're worth 20 bucks an hour. Well, you have just offset. Why didn't you stay living in kits?

Speaker 1:

That's very true. On the renting in kits you mean, versus owning On the renting in kits versus.

Speaker 2:

So people are moving outside of the city for affordability, yeah, yet they're spending all this time becoming tired, overworked.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's a gong show.

Speaker 2:

So it. Yet they're spending all this time becoming tired overworked.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's a gong show, it's the ground to it. The weird thing is, even if you had that, $1,000 savings is people don't need to get approved to spend $100 a week on gas. They don't need to get approved to spend two hours in their car. These are things that are these other factors that we only seem to value the property value. That's the only thing, because what we've been taught is and that's because Vancouver has grown up on this over the past 20 years is that it's grown up on. If I buy a house, it'll go up in value. Well, with interest rates the way it is now, you're barely paying down any principal and you are mostly hopefully looking for that lift versus rent. Okay, but that lift is kind of not there now.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think there's two parts to this, james. I think the first part is people were hoping to make a lot of money. I wouldn't call it investment. We went past the investment. They wanted to make the quick buck, okay, and that would help them then save some money to put it on a down payment.

Speaker 1:

Right, that makes sense, right.

Speaker 2:

So what happens in an economy where we've got this moving, the value of property is going up so quickly in an apartment and then we have an economy turning. So not understanding what you're investing in the number? I'm very concerned right now with the number of residences out there that are being built that are all the developers going to survive? I don't think so. I mean, we're seeing developers right now in solvent going into bankruptcy. The young ones we, many moons ago, having a house with a white picket fence, that was our model, that went away a long time ago and that was supposed to be. You're gonna retire in that house, everything's fine. So we have modeled for our kids and modeled for others that owning a home is the right thing, it's the be-all to end-all, yeah, and it's not it's not we have not.

Speaker 2:

We didn't find a work-life balance earlier on. I think the young people today have a very different outlook in what their lifestyle is, very different than what mine looks like. Yeah, you know they have the work-life balance. You know I'm going on holidays next week. Sorry, I didn't give you enough notice and we see that and it's happening all the time. I don't really feel that. Well, I know we're facing a deadline, but I'm not coming to work tomorrow. I get those phone calls and it's unfortunate. So we have to one understand is that mental well-being? Is it mental health going on? And then it comes all the way back to if you want to have this freestyle lifestyle, you can't have it both ways. You can't hope to make and own a home at a later date.

Speaker 1:

And have consistency.

Speaker 2:

And have consistency. So there's routines in all of what makes a developer tick, and I think it's very hard on the developers themselves when we need to organize trades. I mean the trades themselves, the ones that are working, are very, very busy and we, the good ones, can always have more people. But we're also seeing that it's such an expensive city. We want to have lower costs. Well, you can only go so low in your costs without affecting the performance of the building, and then we get into life cycle and then we get into maintenance, and it happens with our transit system.

Speaker 2:

I mean, one of the big problems we have is infrastructure. Big problems we have is infrastructure. If we were to have built the rapid transit out to Langley years and years ago, we'd have probably easily another 50,000 homes. That would make it more affordable, but we wait until it's too late, in my opinion. Yeah, infrastructure has to be looked at. So we need to look at the whole problem. There isn't just one answer here. You know transportation's there, we need health care and if we're moving people into these areas, then we need to have schools with them. We're going to have grocery stores, but if we don't have the people to build it now we have immigration and then immigration comes in and that's taking jobs away. So you can see and apartments yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, so you've touched on a number of things I think are are.

Speaker 1:

So you know, there's the term the individual contributor, yes, and that individual contributor is that person that is kind of insular in their thinking. They want to run their own show, they want to come in, they want to do their thing. If they're not feeling well that day, hey, it's my mental health, I need to worry about that, which is kind of true. However, I always find that there seems to be a huge gap in between how nasty and brutal the dollar is. When I say the dollar, I don't mean the Canadian dollar versus US dollar. Us dollar I mean the dollar. To earn is a brutal mistress. It is nasty, right, it is the most cutthroat thing to try and go and get, and the business owners that try and get that and then have to pay those to do that work. There's an expectation that the brutalness doesn't transfer. It has to be insulated from any of that brutality of the dollar, and that's just not true Because the dollar is hard to make. So I think what we're finding is is we're. We're finding that we have created and I don't know whether or not it's the boomer generation, with the millennials who have been, you know, bubble wrapping the world for these, for kids, and on top of that, they're in a consumption economy where they're just staring at their phone for five hours when they get home and consuming and not making anything. They're just. They're not even learning. They might be learning, but they might be learning. The problem is that they're not. It's not an interactive learning process, it's a one. It's like drinking from a fire hose process, right, and the velocity, I mean it's not good for serotonin levels. There's a whole bunch of things there.

Speaker 1:

So when we I did this podcast a live podcast like this in Toronto at the Building Show, and I had these two advocates for mental health and construction on and this, there was this clip of us and it is. It's got 3,000 comments on it. It's had 200,000 views on it. It's had 200,000 views on it. It was quite radioactive and what made that happen was that we were talking about what the expectation is and you hit on it earlier is that there's other countries in the world who respect people in trades and if the expectation right now is, this is a fallback, this is what you do when you this is always a plan B or C, it's not a plan A. So the plan B or C paradigm is kind of a mess for people because as soon as they get into the job there's a self-esteem issue right away. Yes.

Speaker 1:

And then there's things like well, maybe on only the bigger job sites is flushing toilets. There is, we have a I know that there's the United States, you know MAGA thing that's going on and RFK is doing the MAHA thing. I mean I said to Andrew Hanson from Site Partners I said how about making construction healthy again For food? Yes, we have a food epidemic in construction. Andrew Hanson from Site Partners, I said how about making construction healthy again for food? Yes, we have a food epidemic in construction. The amount of.

Speaker 1:

I mean I'm sure the quick service restaurants aren't going to like me saying this, but we're poisoning our crews with all this crap food and it's not great for chemicals in the body. It doesn't make them mind. It's not optimal, that's for sure. I mean it might not be as dangerous as a lot of people say that this kind of food is, but I can tell you for sure it's not the ultimate fuel to be putting in the body to get the best output. So we've got a lot of work to do, I think, in the construction industry. Like, what do you think about all that stuff?

Speaker 2:

Well, I think we've got to go back to community. We've got to go back to community, We've got to get out of this mentality of what's in it for me and start working. I mean working in teams. People work better, they're happier, they're more productive. To go back even to that leadership model family as a whole. There's a lot of family breakups. And then there's when I say family breakups, I'm not just talking about divorce itself I think family within siblings that one sibling goes into the construction world and another one goes into health sciences, and it's like, oh, you're smarter than me. And it's like, no, you're not smarter than me, you just have a passion and you're following your passion.

Speaker 2:

Different path yeah, just a complete different path and, I think, moving ahead. If we look at the ethnicity groups here in Canada that are coming together, I mean my parents were immigrants and there would be many times we would head out to a society event and then we would get together with a different country society event and party.

Speaker 1:

So where did your parents come from?

Speaker 2:

My parents were from Switzerland.

Speaker 1:

From Switzerland, okay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, emigrated.

Speaker 1:

Oh Wagner.

Speaker 2:

Wagner, that's right. So that was a big part of it. So we would get together in these groups and if something was going on and say, hey, you know, work's a little slow, well, I maybe have something for you, but these, the community, is getting together every month. For, for one thing, we don't really see the community getting together. One of the one of the something that we just saw, and it was only a week well, because four nations cup, yeah, like that brought our country together. We're not just talking bringing our community together. I mean, the Four Nations Cup to Canada, that was a survival for the country winning that To the US, it was just a sporting event. So we all have a different perception of what we need, but we do recognize that when we won that as a country, as a community, we came together and boy were we proud.

Speaker 2:

We've got to get back to figuring out how to do that, and we can't do it as an individual, that's true. So we can do it on site, we can. Trades can get together. Trades can have their trade party. That's why we're starting to see more and more of that, and I have to think some of the general contractors are organizing that and saying hey, maxwell, it's your turn. You know you haven't been on site because this site's been operating for two years, but in a month we're going to ask you to have enough hamburgers for 80 workers on site, absolutely. I mean, is it an expense that you don't think of? Yes, but when one gets to understand the other trade, or just listen, and you know, shoot the information it's.

Speaker 1:

Well, it's a collective effort. Yeah, I mean, that makes sense to me. I think that the Brits do it.

Speaker 2:

You know they do it going to the pub. New Zealand does it through their rugby. I mean the All Blacks Boy. Are they proud.

Speaker 1:

You know what?

Speaker 2:

boy are they proud. You know what do you think, though it's, it's, it's. How do we bring that into the construction industry? Is is what I want to know where people really feel. You know what I'm good at, what I do, and you wouldn't be living in that you wanting to be, uh, a programmer or do some coding, and it's like, okay, amazon's coming to town and they're going to build a new tower. Well, or, or employ 5 000 people well, it's great, they're going to employ 5 000 people.

Speaker 2:

But it's like, okay, amazon's coming to town and they're going to build a new tower. Well, or, or employ 5,000 people. Well, it's great, they're going to employ 5,000 people, but it's going to take three years to build that tower, to put them in, and it needs to be built. So we can have all of these grants and whatnot, but we need to do a better job managing people's expectations and reward those for what they do, because that's maybe the best they can do. And you know, not everybody's going to be want to take the time to be an engineer and go to school. That's just not their acumen. But boy are they creative when it comes to working with a saw.

Speaker 1:

But do you think human beings get cagey when resources are constrained? Yes, that's where we're at.

Speaker 2:

Yes, but how do you so get cagey? Yeah, let's use rats in a cage. What do they do? They start fighting each other.

Speaker 1:

I know, but that's where we're at right now. We're in this place where, like, I agree with you and if we can make this stuff work, it makes sense, and I think, as you said before we started the podcast about leadership is that it is incumbent on leaders to have some altruism. It can't just be about they have to do other things, and that altruism, ultimately, if it starts out to be selfless, it will end up actually as a benefit. Yes, and that's what I think is missed.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, is that people are looking for too quick of a payoff on altruism yes, and I think we have to do a much better job of managing expectations. Yeah, like no you, I don't think it's going to be that you're going to be owning a home at 24 years old and in Vancouver anytime soon. So if they have that understanding. But, boy, we have worked for you for the next 20 years, so you know what, if you do some savings and put some aside, we can get you there. But we've got to work as a team and we're here to help and you can see, you know George over here has been working for us for 30 years. He loves what he does, you know, for him it's a passion. He's proud of his work, he takes pride in what he does. He's not just showing up to do his eight hours and go home.

Speaker 1:

We're coming up, we would see um models of people who that we would think, yeah, I want to be like that one day. Do you think that that has changed over time of what people value now? Like I think the youth looks at like you or me, they go, go. I don't know, I don't know if I want that, the, the, the, the gap between everyone expecting at some point that they should be able to get a Lamborghini event door somehow. It seems like it's the, the bar, we. There's so much information out there. Let's just say, if an individual is on TikTok, for instance, okay, yeah, just based on their age and their demographic, which TikTok knows, it's going to send that, let's say, 27-year-old male, over and over videos of. I made $7,000 today just on doing this Digital products selling on whatever. Okay, right, just get rich quick stuff.

Speaker 1:

The reality is and I know this is nuts is if you do actually post three videos a day and you do focus, you can make that money. But most people won't do that, right? So it takes an intense kind of person and dedication for a year to be sucking wind, mm-hmm. But if you do that, if you do two, three videos a day, we're talking 700 to 1,000 videos in a year. You'll get that. So that's the weird part.

Speaker 1:

But people are being told this stuff. So it makes people feel that they are inadequate because they know they won't do that. They know it's possible. And then they look at the 30-year veteran at a construction company who maybe has what they want, but they're valuing different things. They're not valuing that guy's job satisfaction. They're like, hey, man, do you have a cabin on the lake with ATVs and a wakeboard boat or not? Because that's what I want. So I only want the baller in construction, which we see a lot of those, by the way, absolutely Tons, tons of them. If you want to be in Lake Country and you want to get a boat and you want a cabin, go in construction Because there's lots of them. But I think that those people need to be out there more and understand that there is a path. You, those people, need to be out there more and understand that there is a path. You get really good at something that you can do and you can have those things.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, but I don't think people are seeing that, because we're now in a time where so as I said, when you and I were coming up, I think there were times where we would say in the next five years, I think I can get here, in the next ten years, I think I can get here they're thinking where can I get in six months?

Speaker 2:

Correct, absolutely, it's like winning the lottery.

Speaker 1:

The time compression has just gone like this of expectation. I need it now because we're in a now economy.

Speaker 2:

We're in an instant gratification economy because of what media is showing us, or Uber?

Speaker 1:

Eats, I can have food. Show up here right now. I want a burger. I can come in here. Yeah, nuts, they might stop them, the Gestapo.

Speaker 2:

Well whether you're talking about an influencer or somebody doing that on TikTok, or a developer. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

They all have a plan, they work hard and they don't give up. Exactly it's the same thing. They don't plan to fail. Where, instant gratification? I don't know a developer that's thinking instant gratification because you can't. You've got to buy that piece of property, you're going to sit on it. You've got to wait for permits and then you've got to get out to get pricing. And now, once you've got your pricing, then maybe we have a pandemic show up. Oh, once you've got your pricing, then maybe we have a pandemic show up. Then maybe we have duties and extra tariffs show up. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

They didn't think about that. But they're still not going backwards. They're not throwing in the towel. They're saying I'm going through with this and I think that's a big piece that individuals. You shared it. They want to make the quick buck. Yeah. Well, if you want to live in the dream world of making a quick buck, you keep doing that, but I don't need to support you while you're trying to figure that out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's, true I don't need to go.

Speaker 2:

No, you don't need to have that apartment. I mean, that's not my responsibility, but if you want to get out on a brass tacks and you want to work hard and have that opportunity, and I think we need to do a better job of making knowledge of what is out there and what is available, because the trades should not be lacking people. We have a lot of young people that would go to work. They just don't know about it. So we have to either do a better job of that early on in life and instead of showing grade 11 and grade 12 students, hey, come into the trades. We need to be starting that in early kindergarten. Let's call it grade two, grade three you talked about McDonald's. Mcdonald's figured that out years ago. I mean when Frozen's on you go into McDonald'sdonald's. Mcdonald's figured that out years ago. I mean when frozen's on you go into mcdonald's and I haven't been into mcdonald's, so I'm going back a few years now you would have these little toys and it would be based on shrek or frozen.

Speaker 2:

So they were bringing those kids back. So here they're sending already subliminal messages absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I think the construction world needs to figure that out and we're going to have to say I mean most of the many, many immigrants that are coming to Canada. They are coming and they're recognizing that the trades If I work hard, the trades are actually going to help me afford, get a place and they're the ones that are applying themselves. I can tell you that from individuals working in our own office that are working and they're being paid very, very well but they want to own a place and they're working a second job and they're already being played significantly better than most of our competitors. We know that. So we're not only doing that. There's trades that are doing that in the shoring and excavation and they're learning to run special equipment.

Speaker 2:

And it comes back to people believing in themselves. And when I have an individual comes to me and says you know, rick, trust can be a real big issue on site and I'll say, well, I don't know why. You know they're working on a million-dollar job and they're a foreman and a foreperson running this job and it's like I just don't feel the trust. And it's well, you know that's a million-dollar job, so it's like $500,000 of that product I'm trusting you with. And then there's $400,000 of labor that I'm trusting you with, you know, and there's 10% of that as profit in there. So what part don't you think I'm trusting you with? Because you have the job, you have the opportunity to make this job go really well by motivating and directing people, yeah, and there's most likely going to be a bonus to come with that. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I don't think they look past. This is where I said they're living in the present, where we will take the time to put a plan together to look into the future. Now, not everybody's going to be that person that's going to put a plan to look into the future. Some people, some individuals, are really good at just wanting to work on the tools and do what they do, and that's okay too. And they are figuring out that if you want to have that place on the lake, maybe they're going to buy that place on the lake. We're going to switch it around Buy that place on the lake first while you're renting, not have to go buy a home and then hope to buy that place on the lake with the atf or atv and and the wake door, yeah, so that's what I've been sharing with some of our young guys go out and find something, find it up north.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a good idea, and you know what. You've got a place to go to. You don't need to cut grass, let somebody else do that. Go to work, save your, and then you have a retreat. And I learned that from some other larger trades. This isn't Rick's idea. This is just listening and passing on that information, I guess confidence, but when you're looking at these Instagrammers that are, you know you talked about, let's call it $7,000 with all of your posts in a day or in a week Great money, absolutely, but it's not realistic and so we've got to get back to that reality, or sustainable, you don't?

Speaker 1:

know what that's going to be in a number of like what transferable skill do you have after that? Because it could die.

Speaker 2:

Well, they're just hoping to make enough money so they can live off the money in the bank, like the number of individuals that hope to retire by winning the lottery. What are your chances of winning the lottery? I've heard it's about 1 in 14 million. Okay, so every time it gets over $14 million, should you go buy a ticket?

Speaker 2:

Yeah that's crazy I don't know, that's a crazy way to think, but there's a huge percentage of population, greater than 30 percent, believe they are going to retire by winning the lottery. It's just such a mess. Yeah, you know. So again, leadership it's what we hear on the news. Uh, it's a lot of silly comments. We need to have strong leaders. Um, we see it on. Um, I mean, just in the politics alone, it confuses a lot of young people. And we are living in a great country with some more natural resources than most other countries on the planet, and we have young people that won't take the time to go vote. That really is upsetting to me, concerning, but disappointing as well. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So when that changes, if we can only do one thing and change 1%, or change 1% of something every day, whether it be our own well-being or helping somebody else by coaching them or mentoring them, that's where we're going to get it. It's going to take time, but we all have to do it collectively and we have been doing it. That's where we've got to get back to. It's going to take a while and, yeah, a lot of young people I mean we have again different ethnicities where they're bringing money here to retire. This is the land of golden opportunity. We have again different ethnicities where they're bringing money here to retire. This is the land of golden opportunity. And so the money is going in the bank. And I think, again, going back to the basics, nothing is for free. When somebody hands you something and says, here, take this for free, that's not for free?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, nothing's free.

Speaker 2:

You're going to be paying for it some way, some form later on.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, respect the dollar.

Speaker 2:

You got it yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's cool. Okay, rick, as always, I like chatting with you, it's always good. Yeah, whistler was last time, I think right.

Speaker 2:

Whistler was last time absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was good.

Speaker 2:

Up at the Learning.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, at the Mallard Lounge, At the Mallard Lounge. That was good that was good.

Speaker 2:

Instruction Leadership Forum so well, james, you're doing a great job. Thank you for being here. For the industry, I mean SightMax, you're a voice and people are paying attention Really. And we may be listening in little snippets here and there. Yeah, but we try to pick out the things that will promote the industry. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And really get the young ones to say, hey, this is good. So thanks for doing this, it's appreciated, and we need to support you as well as you supporting the industry, because you take the time to reach out to us, yeah, and I think we need to show up as well to help you.

Speaker 1:

Thanks Rick, Likewise man. Okay, Thank you Awesome.