The SiteVisit

Revolutionizing Home Efficiency with Arman Mottaghi, CEO at Properate

• James Faulkner

Share episode

Send us a text

The Future of Efficient, Healthy Housing is Here!

Tune in to our conversation with Arman Mottaghi, CEO of Properate. With Properate’s innovative technology, homeowners can now pinpoint which improvements will truly make a difference, avoiding wasted money on ineffective upgrades. Together with Arman, we dive into how the return on investment for home energy upgrades extends far beyond utility savings to include increased property value, health benefits, and greater resilience against climate events. He also highlights how many Canadians are missing out on substantial government incentives—such as interest-free loans up to $40,000 for qualifying improvements—simply because they’re unaware these programs exist.

For those living in strata properties or multi-unit buildings, achieving efficiency presents unique challenges that require collective action. However, the greatest opportunities lie with single-family homes and townhouses, which make up the bulk of our residential built environment. Want to know more? Tune in now.

PODCAST INFO:
the Site Visit Website: https://www.sitemaxsystems.com/podcast
the Site Visit on Buzzsprout: https://thesitevisit.buzzsprout.com/269424
the Site Visit on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-site-visit/id1456494446
the Site Visit on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5cp4qJE5ExZmO3EwldN1HH

FOLLOW ALONG:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thesitevisit
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesitevisit

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Site. Visit Podcast Leadership and Perspective from Construction with your host, james Faulkner, recorded live from the show floor at BuildX Vancouver 2025. Arman Muttaghi yes, I like that name Really. Oh, it's kind of like we said like Armani Armani, yeah, you get that a lot. So you are CEO of PropRate, yeah, and I said property and operate and you're like no rating, so, yeah, and you've been doing this for six years. That's correct. Yeah, take me through the business. So again, you've been doing this for six years. That's correct. Yeah, take me through the business. What's the main value?

Speaker 2:

proposition. So our work, as the name suggests, property rating, is around home energy rating and upgrade planning. Okay, now, usually when I tell this to people, I lose them. So my whole goal today is to demonstrate to you, hopefully, that this is the most important thing we need to get right as an industry. As such an overlooked area is home energy upgrade planning. Okay, yeah, so one of my colleagues. What they say is failure to plan is planning to fail is failure to plan is planning to fail.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and I'm going to pose a challenge to you. Okay, that we have 25 billion square meters sorry, 25 billion square feet. Two and a half billion square meters of housing in Canada. That requires an energy upgrade in the next 20 years.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So when you say energy upgrade, take us through what that means.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's changing insulation in the walls. That is not working really well. It's windows.

Speaker 1:

Heating source.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, heating sources, yeah, heat pumps and furnaces and all of that. How would you solve that problem? Do you think you have enough of a workforce today, Like, is there enough financing?

Speaker 1:

Hmm, well, how would?

Speaker 2:

you solve it. Yeah, so you're posed with this problem. 20 years from now, you need to have retrofitted 25 billion square feet of space okay, um, I don't know.

Speaker 1:

You're gonna tell me I I I'm thinking about my own environment. I'm thinking well, you know, it's got baseboard heaters, it's got nine, nine glass panels everywhere. I don't know, maybe the windows are 20 years old. I don't know. It sounds like a lot of money and a lot of time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so give me what you would say.

Speaker 2:

I think the biggest challenge is that we don't have any idea where to start. What does matter? The most immediate problem that needs to be solved and on the other hand, what is in it for you?

Speaker 1:

Okay, just one sec, though, in terms of the fact that it's inefficient. What is the effect of the inefficiency? So what are we running away from?

Speaker 2:

Okay, one thing that people hate about me is that I answer questions with questions, and now you're stuck in this with me because I'm going to answer your question with a question that is seemingly irrelevant. Have you ever smoked on an airplane?

Speaker 1:

No.

Speaker 2:

Do you know people used to smoke on an airplane?

Speaker 1:

I've seen it, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I was on a trip with one of my family members, and they were musing about how stupid it is that airplanes have a no smoking sign.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

They were like why do they put that sign everywhere? Why do they put that sign everywhere? And I had to explain to them, as they were, like, increasingly astonished, that that was a normal thing. People used to smoke on an airplane. There were like smoking sections. The armrests used to have an ashtray in them, and people like today they're astonished about that being normal 20 years ago. I think in a decade or so we are going to be as astonished about how little we know about our homes and the indoor environment that we have and we are living in them as we are talking about the smoking on our planes today. So looking at survival shows that I do. From time to time they talk about this rule of three, three, three. Are you familiar with that? So it's if you don't eat food for three weeks, you are going to. You're not going to survive if you don't drink water for three days okay yeah, you're not going to survive, but for air.

Speaker 2:

If you don't breathe air for three minutes, obviously that's going to be the end. We talk so much about our diet, going on different kinds of diet. We talk so much about nutrition. We talk so much about our water resources and filtering our water. Do we talk enough about our air? Like, the first thing you said was like okay, so I have these windows and I have you know the-.

Speaker 1:

Well, I don't have the windows. The building has the windows.

Speaker 2:

The building has the windows, yeah, and I don't see them changing that. And you're not really paying for the window per se. You're paying for the air inside, You're paying for the comfort you have inside the building, right, yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2:

So let's reframe that conversation. Which is that like are we really like understanding what the problem is in the first place, if I tell you that kids the research have been done on them shows that they are getting higher math scores when you're increasing the comfort indoors and you know, increasing the temperature and the humidity you increase the amount of ventilation that comes in, the fresh air that comes in oh, fresh air Okay.

Speaker 2:

And you're tuning the environment. It's not necessarily just getting it warmer or colder. You're radiating to your walls. You know the night vision goggles that show you like you're glowing. You're glowing to the walls of the building and the building is glowing back at you and if that's not tuned you're not going to be comfortable. So all of these little factors, when you tune them, you are going to have better attention, you're going to have better health and so does your family, and when people learn about this, there is really not going back to the smoking on the airplane situation. So when we are talking about that upgrade and why it matters, I think hopefully that answers your question.

Speaker 1:

No, it was more of. When we say that we need to make changes. Yeah, is it. What is the? Obviously there's okay.

Speaker 2:

So, on a new build, for instance, we have energy energy of step code, energy of star rating, energy of whatever, Exactly you?

Speaker 1:

have all that stuff.

Speaker 1:

And that makes sense, yeah, but when it comes in, when it comes to an existing building, let's say you need to go buy a new washer dryer, well, it's going to be energy star rated. Okay, that's fine. Let's say, your appliances, that's one thing, but when it comes, maybe you have toilets that are lower flush toilets. There's all of these things that are. There's programs that have established the reason that those things have these ratings and these restrictions and the way that they operate, the way that they operate.

Speaker 1:

What macro system is that affecting? That is a cost, or is it just the fact that in order to have an appliance pass CSA or whatever it is, it has to now have a certain energy rating? Well, it's because we're trying to make everything more efficient, but on a property that already exists. What is the reason to the person? Besides besides their here in bc we call it their hydro bill. Okay, the reason would be to lower that and be more efficient, but what is the cost of that? So if I get to replace my entire building has to replace all of the duct work, has to replace all of the glazing and the entire envelope, I don't know how many multiples of millions of dollars that is to do? It's not going to attack that hydro bill.

Speaker 2:

It's not going to be enough.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it would not be close, but there is an equation here. So you have only talked about one part of the equation, which is a return on investment, which makes sense for larger buildings like industrial buildings or commercial buildings. Yeah, but there is also other parts In terms of the return on investment. It is your higher property value if you are owning that place. It is the betterment of just your environment. We spend a lot of money on improvement for our own health, right, and you know, nobody comes to you and says, oh, like you want to improve your nutrition, your environment. We spend a lot of money on improvement for our own health and nobody comes to you and says, oh, you want to improve your nutrition.

Speaker 1:

What's in it for you Is there a return on investment to eat better, but this is the air that's better. Is that what you're suggesting? The indoor environment for you is better.

Speaker 2:

What are the factors of the indoor environment? It's volatile compounds that you're breathing in, so as you're walking on the floor, these compounds are coming out. And your home? I like to think of it as a living thing Because, just like how you talk about your gut microbiome, the home itself has an environment inside it. And even those things that are getting airborne in the lab they have tested them that they are safe that are getting airborne In the lab they have tested them that they are safe. But a moment that an ozone particle from a car passing by your home comes into the space, this is volatile.

Speaker 2:

It is one of these things. That element becomes volatile and then hits something else. It's just these fireworks are going on in your air and you have no idea, and you're pushing them in the other part of it, as we talked about glowing radiation.

Speaker 2:

So sometimes you find yourself that you're sweating but also cold, and that is like a sort of thing that happens when your air is comfortable, but like you're, you're by radiation.

Speaker 2:

You are not comfortable, like your window is not radiating back enough to you in terms of heat, you're losing a lot of heat to it and all of these little factors especially after the pandemic, when you're spending so much time in your home they have to do with all of the health stuff that you're right now dealing with. It gets exacerbated because you're spending so much time in the place. Now I want to add one more thing that's not in terms of that return on investment equation is that governments utilities. They have enormous amounts of money that they are putting into demand-side management. As you mentioned the electricity bill, I believe one of our utilities is putting $600 million in the next few years just on demand site management. But directing these funds right now is really ineffective. It's based on a formula that is done by some assumptions and it doesn't really solve the problems. So the work that we are doing finally getting there is around solving the problems the way it matters.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

So let me give you an example, more like an analogy. You're going skiing, it's winter, it's very cold and, for whatever reason, you have put on shorts. You have a jacket, you're freezing. You're uncomfortable. You have another jacket. You put it on Still uncomfortable. Put on another jacket, you're still uncomfortable. No matter how many jackets you put on, you will be uncomfortable because you're skiing in shorts.

Speaker 2:

Your home energy efficiency works in the same way. If you have good attic insulation and you're adding insulation to that attic, it's kind of like putting on another jacket while the bare legs are the windows that are losing all the heat. So all of the money you are spending is going to base. That makes sense. All the heat. So all of the money you are spending is going to waste. That makes sense. The work we are doing is that, by digital twinning the home, we are figuring out what is the best route for you to get that unified, proper environment and, as you mentioned, it could be the mechanical system, it could be ventilation, it could be your insulation or windows, and the kicker is that the kind of thing you have to do for your home is different than the kind of thing I have to do for my home, for sure.

Speaker 2:

Right. But when you're looking at those incentives I'm talking about the $600 million they are putting the incentives in a formula and our research has shown that the formula is actually missing what you have to do? Because when you get an average, the average is nobody right. If we have like two shared sizes and we get the average of that, it's neither of us and that means it's going to miss both of us. So what we are working on we have three cohorts of customers. I put these folks in the cohort of enterprise, so government and enterprises and utilities. We're working with them to tailor this thing and instead of like having one assumption about a home, like I close my eyes and think that homes are spheres and they are floating in the space, we are like no, you have 1.3 million homes in BC. In fact, you know we are working with the BC government on this front right now with the BC Home Energy Planner.

Speaker 1:

What are you doing with them?

Speaker 2:

What is?

Speaker 1:

the specific task you guys are.

Speaker 2:

Let's go back to the question and the plan Two and a half billion square meters of built space. We need to upgrade it. The first thing you have to do is to plan. So what we do is that we are finding where these buildings are, we are looking at public data to create an idea, essentially that digital twin that I'm talking about, but with some assumptions. That says this one home is in this scale in terms of already doing well or having a potential for an upgrade, and then we map all of these homes.

Speaker 2:

So the places you need to focus on are for the entire building of stock. Are these priorities? For example, a lot of homes have problem A, like they don't have good attic installation, or problem B, and guess what? We have maybe like two companies in every town doing that kind of work. It needs to be like 200 companies, like that's the kind of problem we have when it comes to this scale. So when it comes to workforce you know workforce planning and when it comes to understanding the problem and routing the funds, that's the kind of work we do with the government.

Speaker 1:

How do you route the funds? Just give me the use case here. If you identify a home in Langley, let's say single dwelling house, detached home, and you do an assessment on this home, you have single dwelling house like detached home, yeah, and you do an assessment on this home.

Speaker 2:

So you have people who can go on site and do the assessment. Okay, so they do the assessment and then give it a rating. They give it a rating. The problem is that there is not enough of them nowadays and there is like a lot of workforce development, there is like a lot of training happening. So what we do in the first step is that we are using that remote energy rating work to figure out where, roughly, the potential of this home is. And the next step is that when you work with the government on this front, you have to engage homeowners, and I think I shouldn't preach to the choir and tell you how hard it is to talk to an audience about the importance of just engaging them when you are competing with other sources of information that's coming to them to say, okay, now I want your focus on this particular thing, that we think your home has a high potential for doing an energy upgrade.

Speaker 2:

And so these are the A and B and C that we need to care about. Okay, so I'm going to get there one second. Okay, so the next thing we do is that we have a website. You can go to this website Right now. Across Canada, you can access proprateio. You go in there. You put in your address.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we get the data we have from satellite images and the public information about your home and we ask you this stuff. We don't know about your home Questionnaire. It's a questionnaire, but it's only 10 questions and it's 10 questions that you can answer. I don't ask you about what is the R value of your home or of your ceiling, or what is the air change rates. So it's like you know, what have you changed in the last 10 years? So when you answer that question, I can give you a report that tells you okay, this is where we think your home is and we think, maybe we think you should get that onsite assessment. And also, this is a checklist of the things that you need to be doing. And in BC there is the BC Home Energy Planner is doing this work for the residents of BC in the regions that is being piloted right now.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So then, so back to the use case of the detached home. Yeah, that they go to your website, they put in their address, they put in their address, they finish the questionnaire, finish the questionnaire and then they go, and then you have a result which says we think that you are eligible for an upgrade.

Speaker 2:

We think these are the areas to focus. We think these are the incentives that are relevant to you, for example, for changing your….

Speaker 1:

Just take me through the incentives. How does that work? Where is this funding coming from?

Speaker 2:

So the funding is coming from the government. A lot of places in Canada federal government has some funding.

Speaker 1:

Okay, official places have funding, yeah, so what would the typical use case be on a per home basis? How much money are we talking about?

Speaker 2:

So let's say, for example so when you're getting an attic installation we just talked about attics they give you in BC, I believe they give you up to $900 for the amount of installation you're adding, for the amount of roof square footage that you have. We do all of that calculation for you and we say, okay, we think you're eligible for this much, but you can top it up with a federal government program. Now that program discontinued a while ago but when it was around you were pretty much getting the entire money in terms of government incentives for a lot of homes Like I have had homes that they pretty much had nothing to pay out of pocket to do that kind of upgrade. But again, like the medicine that works on one home doesn't work on another.

Speaker 1:

I get that. I mean the attic is like the lowest hanging fruit period because a it's not typically not finished and b you know you can get up there and there's no art on the walls, there's no carpet on the ground you would be surprised, james.

Speaker 2:

Let me tell you, there is like so many variables that is coming in and there is so many homes that just haven't done the upgrades like okay, you would think you, you would be so surprised that, oh, this is such a no-brainer, but just people don't know about it.

Speaker 1:

But the question is let's say you get $900, but the actual project's $2,500. And there's usually something that tips the scale for somebody to do something. What's the motivation? The motivation is what virtue? Signaling that, hey, my, my house is, is more efficient, my hydro bill is going to go down like what's the what's? What's in it for them emotionally, financially. What is that?

Speaker 2:

so, yeah, a big part of that is just making sure that you are living in a place that is proper for you. You're actually getting your money's worth instead of spending your utility bill on something that's just wasting energy.

Speaker 1:

But again, I want to go back to the equation, because that's a financial incentive.

Speaker 2:

I want to go back to the equation. Right, it's the equation. Part of it is financial incentives. There's a part of it that has to do with your own aspirations. Right, it's the equation. Part of it is financial incentives. There's a part of it has to do with your own aspirations, right, and there's a part of it that has to do with the broader aspiration we have as a society, which comes into the government incentives and the utility incentives and the demand side management program. So the work we do is to get this equation right and the work is not done. That's why we are in business, right?

Speaker 2:

There is a lot of that that needs to happen more and more.

Speaker 1:

So how do you? What's the revenue model of your company?

Speaker 2:

How do you guys get?

Speaker 2:

paid so we have multiple avenues. The one we didn't talk about is through the people who are doing the upgrade work. So we are helping them. We are launching a new product in about a month that is helping them size the equipment well. So let's say somebody comes to your home and they want to upgrade your heating system to a heat pump. Now, a lot of time the sizing of that heat pump happens with just eyeballing and that's not good. Just like how you don't buy a shirt without looking at its size. If your heat pump happens with just eyeballing, and that's not good. Just like how you don't buy a shirt without looking at its size. If your heat pump is oversized, it has some problems with its longevity. If it's undersized, it's not going to get your home comfortable.

Speaker 2:

So we have crammed $35,000 worth of equipment into an iPhone, into an iPhone Pro.

Speaker 2:

We call them hand warmers because we are just using every single sensor and technology that they have. So you walk around the place and you start 3D scanning the place and it detects the windows for you, detects the walls, detects different elements inside the building, and then this takes a ton of manual work off of the plate of somebody who is doing that kind of energy rating for you and in the meantime, allows them to do better testing of your home and have more time to just talk to you and understand your aspirations. So that's one of our fields of work. The other one is just working with the governments, working with utilities at a massive scale, run projects and just give the insights to the residents and also to the government to direct this money better. Again, I want to talk about the equation. The first one is that you engage the people, give them good advice, but also you are bringing the government and when you look at that as a whole. Now we go back to your question of is that $2,500 to be spent is worth spending?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, I think on the single family home, the detached home, it's easy, on the strata, it's a mess.

Speaker 2:

On the strata. It's a whole different ballpark Because you can't even touch it One person can't do it unless the entire strata is approved.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah, I had to which is a lot of neighborhoods. Are entire strata is approved? Yeah yeah, um, I had to, which is a lot of neighborhoods are now. Are strata neighborhoods even with single like detached homes?

Speaker 2:

you can't touch the exterior, not allowed to touch it there is the hoas homeowner associations uh, that's like that's the stuff about the outside, um, but you know what goes inside the walls and whatnot. As you're saying, a stratus is a whole different beast. But also, I think what we call is the biggest sin in construction is that we forget the lowest hanging fruits, and those are those single family homes, the townhouses, the owner homes. These are the vast majority of our residential built space. If I ask you a question, 25 billion square feet we talked about. This data is a few years old, so forgive me about that, but how much of that do you think are high rises in terms of percentage? Are high rises in terms of percentage?

Speaker 1:

High rises. What are we considering? A high rise over A high?

Speaker 2:

rise residential building Just just over what? 10 stories Over 10 stories 8 stories, over 8 stories. Let's call it that. What percentage? Of that 25 billion square feet. What percentage of it is high rises 15. 3.6. So, like Estrada buildings, whole different problem, like all of this high rise Estrada. But the big, big, big problem are those single family homes, townhouses, this long tail of construction that we have overlooked for so many years.

Speaker 1:

So what about townhouses? Would be part of Strata.

Speaker 2:

Townhouses. It really depends on your model of ownership and the types of things to do. A lot of times you just don't need to. You're basically limited from changing the exterior, but if you band with your other homeowners around you, you can get some government incentives that compound for everybody. You also can do certain kind of work that has to do with your shared amenities or the stuff that you're doing yourself, like, for example, a lot of times people have water heating that is independent, yeah, and you have to change that water heating system. So, um, when it's breaking down, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna get somebody you happen to know to come in and tell you to put one thing or another, or are you going to get advice about that, for example, there?

Speaker 1:

are heat pump water heaters now that just plug into the wall. So wouldn't it be helpful if your programs were subsidized also by a property tax incentive of some sort? By a property tax incentive of some sort, I mean to me it seems, you know, with people with mortgage rates super high, people are like they're up to their eyeballs in it.

Speaker 1:

This is the last thing they want to think about Until until the government says, hey, we can give you up to $900 for X, and once this passes with a company like Proparate, once it's approved and finished, then you're going to get a tax break for whatever property tax, because getting people to do things, depending on what it is it, can be quite disruptive too.

Speaker 1:

Like you've got a construction crew and they're doing stuff I mean an addict sticking a bunch of pink insulation in there, big deal, whatever, easy. But if you're going to be doing something else where it's like changing the windows, shit, I mean that's like it's not depending on what windows it is. It's like changing the windows, shit, I mean that's like that's not depending on what windows it is. It's a single family home and, as you were saying, like if maybe we were 3% are only high rises, eight stories and up, but there's a lot that are six stories, tons, six stories. There's lots of those. They're all townhouses, they're all connected, they're all part of a strata. Even the high rises have 20 townhomes attached to each, to each.

Speaker 1:

uh development yeah, there's tons right. Um, I think on the duplex side of things I could see neighbors getting together and be like, look, we got to you know because that's basically. You know it's a strata of two, but I think that, like anything, you know, these programs need to be pushed by the government even harder, because it would make your job a lot easier.

Speaker 2:

So let me answer those one by one. The first thing was about okay, why don't we do tax incentives? Why don't we do that kind of things? Question for you Will you take a $40,000 interest-free loan? No, you won't do that.

Speaker 1:

No, Would you take? Not unless I knew that it would grow the property value by that. No, would you take? Not unless I knew that it would grow the property value by 80. Okay, if it doubled it. I mean, that's just a math, because this interest-free loan, you still got to pay it back.

Speaker 2:

Over many years? Yeah, would you take incentives on the mortgage insurance you are paying if you are getting a new building? Yes, okay, so these programs exist today. Okay, you just don't hear about them. Yeah, you don't hear about them. That's the problem, right, yeah?

Speaker 1:

So what's the 40 grand one?

Speaker 2:

It's called the Canada Greener Homes Nome. They used to have a grant as well. Can that be on an?

Speaker 1:

existing home? It can be. Oh, have a grant as well. Can that be on an existing home? It can be oh, that's cool. So that's exactly like. Do you have a list of these things on your website?

Speaker 2:

Yes, oh, that's pretty cool, you can go, yeah, so when you get your report, yeah, this is how you can execute, yeah.

Speaker 2:

That's cool. So you just don't hear about them. And then, if enough, people hear about them the people who have there's a ton of money that just doesn't get allocated because they don't have that channel of getting to people. So that's a big problem, right, people are not hearing about them. Now, the other thing you mentioned was like it can be really disruptive. That's actually something we have looked into very deeply. Of course, you have your life and you don't want to be disrupted. Now I want to highlight two things. The first one is that what do you do to avoid future disruptions? I think a lot of people would take the fact that they can make their home resilient towards the next heat wave any day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's the big one.

Speaker 2:

Right. The other thing is that we are trying to reach people at certain points. So you have a time of sale. Rating, for example, is that the home is empty, right, but you want to increase the value of the home you touched. Sale rating, for example, is that the home is empty, right, but you want to increase the value of the home. You touched on that. You know like getting an energy upgrade can be one of the biggest boost you can have in the property value. So, when the home is empty, why don't we upgrade it as it's happening?

Speaker 2:

Time of replacement Well, your heat pump is broken down or your hot water system has broken down or your roof is leaking. You're going to have the disruption anyway. So would you rather do something that is going to cost you more and you have to revisit in 10 years, or would you want to get the best class advice that is going to give you that has more durability, is resilient against those next heat waves or cold snaps, and it's going to be the same amount of effort and cost? Like people think that I'm lying about this, but in reality, just the knowledge is not flowing around for you to understand what is the best thing you want to do, but just people, because they're doing the same thing over and over again and they're using outdated technology, they end up paying more and they end up not really improving on those resiliency metrics.

Speaker 1:

That's cool. Okay, so people go to your website to do this. So what's the website address?

Speaker 2:

It's called proper8.io. If you're familiar with it's Papa Romeo, oscar, papa Echo Romeo, alpha Tango, echo dot India.

Speaker 1:

Wow, that's exhaustive. Yeah, Jeez, I think people got it.

Speaker 2:

So, proper8.io.

Speaker 1:

Proper8.io, that's cool, okay, cool, and then people can find you on LinkedIn. Have they got any questions?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, if they got any questions and if you are around in BC, just stay tuned in the BC Home Energy Planner Folks in the government. They are doing really amazing work there, getting a ton of resources together that people can easily see and they have all the right things in the book.

Speaker 1:

All right. Well, thank you very much, and also thank you for I keep seeing people keep waving to me as they're walking behind you. I'm like hi. So, yeah, there's lots of people here that I know. So anyway, thank you very much. Best of luck for everything, and it's pretty cool what you're doing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I feel like I could make an impression on the questions because you were asking me hard questions and that's always welcome. But you know, I was at the COP conference a few months ago. I can tell you that we in Canada are the front runners on this front and I think if we get this right, if we get the equation right and we get the incentives right, then we can start exporting this technology, because people everywhere in the world are going to deal with climate change effects and they're going to woke up to the fact that we have all of these problems. So I know there is a lot of things that today are not incentivizing people to make change.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But there is so much opportunity that I think we will look at it as a smoking airplane that I was looking to you about.

Speaker 1:

That was a good bookend. Okay, Well, perfect. Thank you very much. All right, man, Thank you. Well. That does it for another episode of the Site Visit. Thank you for listening. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube. You can also sign up for a monthly newsletter at sitemaxsystemscom slash the site visit, where you'll get industry insights, pro tips and everything you need to know about the site visit podcast and sitemax, the job site and construction management tool of choice for thousands of contractors in North America and beyond. Sitemax is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building.