The SiteVisit

Breaking Barriers: Accessibility in Construction with Samantha Ryan, Principal at ABE Factors

• James Faulkner

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Discover the transformative journey of accessibility in the built environment with accessibility expert Samantha Ryan from ABE Factors. We delve into how building codes have evolved, recognizing not only the importance of physical adaptations but also the need for a more comprehensive understanding that includes cognitive and sensory considerations. 

During our engaging conversation, Samantha shares her passion for her work and the pivotal changes brought by the Accessible Canada Act, emphasizing how the movement for inclusivity is more than just a regulatory hurdle—it's about creating spaces that welcome everyone. We discuss the historic gaps in accessibility and how awareness of various disabilities is rising, leading to innovative architectural solutions designed for a diverse community.

Moreover, we explore the exciting advancements in technology that are shaping a more accessible future, such as wearable devices and smart systems that empower individuals with disabilities. By embedding accessibility principles from the outset of design projects, developers can sidestep costly retrofits and embrace inclusivity as a fundamental aspect of construction. 

Join us as we envision a future where inclusivity is interwoven into the fabric of our living and working spaces, creating environments that enhance not just functionality but also comfort and happiness for all. Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave us a review to engage with our community and stay updated on more insightful discussions!

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Site. Visit Podcast leadership and perspective from construction with your host, james Faulkner, recorded live from the show floor at BuildX Vancouver 2025. All right, samantha Ryan from ABE. Factors, factors, the factors, the factors of the accessibility world.

Speaker 3:

Correct.

Speaker 1:

Wow. So tell me, what was the impetus you getting started as principal of this company Like you started from nothing. What was like the I got to get into this business?

Speaker 3:

I think it happened organically. So I went to school at Conestoga in Kitchener, ontario, for architecture, construction, engineering. When I came, when I passed and I graduated, I was looking for a job. I got hired as a building code consultant at a fire and life safety firm. On my very first day, my boss came up to me and he's like would you like to be our accessibility specialist? Okay.

Speaker 3:

And at the time I did have an interest in it while I was in school, and so I said, sure, why not? A couple moments later, he showed up in my office with a stack of codes and standards related to accessibility, and he's like start reading. And so here I am, 14 years later 14 years Wow, that's a long time. Eat, sleep, breathe. Building codes, legislation, regulations as it pertains to the accessible built environment.

Speaker 1:

So how often do these regulations change? Is it yearly, or what's the sort of cycle on these?

Speaker 3:

I would say the cycle is every three to five years. Okay. Yeah. Depending on the building code, depending on the legislation, depending on the regulation.

Speaker 1:

Okay, interesting. So how bad was it historical?

Speaker 3:

in terms of accessibility. I mean accessibility has been in the code since maybe then, I think, the first adopted accessible requirements in early 1972. Uh, they weren't much like a wider door. Latch side clearances, uh, accessible paths of travel. Yeah. Now we're kind of in this. The landscape of accessibility is evolving. It's changing rapidly. Right now I'm not sure if you were aware. Maybe I'll ask you the question.

Speaker 1:

Okay, go for it.

Speaker 3:

Did you know that Canada has its own Accessible Canada Act? No, I did not know that. Okay, so it was enacted in 1990.

Speaker 1:

Okay, sorry, it was not know that we are so behind in terms of accessibility.

Speaker 3:

Building codes are only catching up now. However, now that we have the Accessible Canada Act in place and other provinces are starting to adopt their own accessible legislation, we're also going through a building code harmonization exercise, so provinces that adopted their own building codes, like the British Columbia Building Code, for instance, just finished harmonizing with the National Building Code, so we can be all on the same page.

Speaker 1:

I see Okay.

Speaker 3:

There were benefits of that. There were disadvantages to that, but right now we are progressing. There is a movement to go beyond all building codes. So you can't just do the minimum anymore. You have to go above and beyond.

Speaker 1:

So what are the typical categories? Is it mostly like mobility access, most of the time, like, as in wheelchair, access? What other areas are there, maybe in terms of vision impaired as well, in terms of having you know on elevator numbers, the Braille, etc. You know on elevator numbers, the Braille, et cetera? What other things? What are some of the like the different categories that you could just sort of?

Speaker 3:

you know, tell the listeners that. So there's actually a broad lens of people with disabilities. Originally, building code started out more physical right. So you think a person using a manual wheelchair Gotcha? But, there's different types of wheelchairs, there's scooters, there's electric wheelchairs right, all different sizes and all different capabilities. Okay.

Speaker 3:

Then we move into, like you said, the vision community. Yeah, so whether you're blind or partially sighted, yeah, we've got hearing. If you have a hearing impairment or you have partial hearing or you're deaf, yeah, there's two deaf communities. There's little D and big D. Big D is actually people who self-identify as deaf. They might have been born and such, but that is their community of space. Okay, but then you also have cognitive, you have mental awareness, you have that neurodiverse lens. A lot of us are being diagnosed with ADHD these days. Right.

Speaker 3:

So we're taking a more cognitive lens, uh, to the approach that accessibility is. It's ever evolving, but now we're not only looking at physical barriers, we're looking at cognitive barriers as well. Crazy.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

It is yeah so it everything from your accessible paths of travel, right? It's not just about turning circles and ramps anymore. Uh, you know those bubbly things. You see the, the, the yellow, the yellow materials with the truncated domes on them. They're little bubbles outside of like a train platform okay, yeah if you will do. You know what they're for. No, yeah, so they're actually there for people who are blind or partially sighted when they step to that platform edge yeah it's telling them that there's a hazard there and they feel the bubbles under their feet and it tells them to stop

Speaker 3:

I see that's why we're also starting to apply those at the tops of stairs right. So again, you're addressing a hazard before it happens crazy.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so this is, this is like an iceberg yeah.

Speaker 3:

And then if we look at the hearing community, uh, you'll start to notice, especially more prominent in bc you'll start to notice these symbols the International Symbol of Hearing. It's just an ear, okay, like it's white, typically on a blue background. Yeah, attached to like a service counter or something. Yeah. That means someone with, like, a cochlear implant or a hearing implant can actually have a conversation and hear the person behind the desk. You're crazy, but if you and I don't have a hearing disability or a cochlear implant, we would never know that it's there.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah, so what sort of advisory services are you are you providing? So you're getting into the at the architectural level, obviously. Yes. And you're consulting with architects and engineers.

Speaker 3:

Every everyone architects, engineers, interior designers, property managers, developers, you name it. Those are our clients.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 3:

We do everything from pre-construction services to post-construction. So we do design reviews, from concept, schematic design, development, construction documentation to occupancy. And then we also do existing building assessments. So we'll go into an existing building and we'll assess that against either the accessibility requirements of a building code a new building code, uh or this. There's also the new rick hansen foundation accessibility certification, so we do those, okay.

Speaker 3:

Um, if you're familiar with residential design, apartments and whatnot, there's the cmhc mli select program okay, tell me about that so if you want to get up to 95 loan to value, you can apply through cmhc to get your loan yeah by applying the ml I select criteria. It's split into affordable requirements, uh, sustainable requirements and accessibility requirements okay so we'll sign. We'll do the reviews for those accessibility points and sign the accessibility attestation it's pretty sweet business you got there.

Speaker 1:

You know, it's kind of interesting.

Speaker 3:

It's not too shabby.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, it's pretty cool. So when a developer, you know, starts with kind of their dream and then they get into the reality. I see it a lot that continuum between we just want to do the bare minimum to we want to go full out all the way down to ADHD.

Speaker 3:

I mean that is a spectrum of we're all on a spectrum right.

Speaker 1:

No, I'm just saying there's a spectrum from wheelchair ramps to that as I'm saying in terms of your paradigm your business. So where do you kind of see the interest fall off when it gets too expensive? Or is it to the point where politically, they're like, yeah, it's not going to be much of an uptick for us. Where does the care end?

Speaker 3:

That's a hard one, because everyone wants to go above and beyond code right now. So everyone is striving to find what is the above and beyond point. That's why a lot of people are going for, say, the CMHC, mli Select, or they're going for Rick Hansen Foundation Accessibility Certification. Okay, people love certification attached to anything it's like a feather in the cap. So very much like LEED sustainability right.

Speaker 1:

It's branding.

Speaker 3:

You're measuring the level of energy savings and sustainability within a building. This RHFAC says we're measuring the level of meaningful access your building is providing. So people are jumping on board with that. However, when it comes to costs, if you bring on an accessibility consultant or if you start the RHFAC process or the above and beyond at the concept design phase, you're going to be fine. It's when you call me at construction documentations 90%. We've already tendered out some of the stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

That's when it's going to hurt you the most in terms of cost. And then if you just build the building and realize that you need to make it more accessible, yeah, it's going to be that much more expensive.

Speaker 1:

You're the queen of change orders at that point. Absolutely yeah, yeah, queen CEO.

Speaker 3:

And it's because, um, it's tough having those conversations with clients when they come to me at the cd or existing building when they're like, oh, I just built this building, can you rate it? And I'm like, well, it's not going to do very well because you didn't integrate these things, um. One example would be the national building code requires uh and I use the national building order same as bcbc essentially 850 wide doors. Okay, so that's a 915 standard door. However, if you want a future proof for accessibility, you should have just gone with the 860, the new 965 clear door, um, which is much cheaper to do in the drawing phase than it is to do in an existing building phase.

Speaker 1:

Crazy. Okay, yeah, and we're talking. These are entrance doors. Are these like suites? All doors, all doors.

Speaker 3:

Oh, if you take me down the road of like adaptable dwelling unit requirements and visitability requirements that are going to be released and that are existent there In certain standards and regulations Visitability requirements, visitability, what does that?

Speaker 1:

mean Like all visitors.

Speaker 3:

So what does that mean?

Speaker 1:

Residential design criteria Is that visit, as in who can show up, or visibility, as in site.

Speaker 3:

Making it visitable so for example, visitable.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yeah, I'll take it Okay, so. Gotcha.

Speaker 3:

I'll break it down. If we have an apartment building or a condomin, all right, you have a series of units. Yeah, oftentimes, depending on what province you're in, they'll have a requirement like you need 15 accessible suites or you need 20 accessible suites. Uh, we actually don't have that requirement here in the bc, in bc. But, uh, the national building code is working on adaptability and visibility requirements. Bcbc already has adaptable requirements. Adaptable means that you have reinforcing in the walls in your bathroom so that someone in the future could install a grab bar. Okay.

Speaker 3:

Visitability is gravitating towards making sure that your friend who uses a manual wheelchair can come to your apartment and actually enjoy themselves. So they can get into your apartment, maneuver the main floor of your space and use your bathroom. So bathrooms, particularly if I bring it back to the BCBC they're looking for 100% adaptability units right now. One of those updates to the 2024 version was to provide a transfer space of 900 by 1500 next to your toilet. So your bathroom's getting larger. The. National Building Code is asking for 1500 turning circle. Right Wow.

Speaker 3:

These things are coming down the pipeline and if you want to go above and beyond that, there's a standard called CSA B651, which refers you to CSA B652, an accessible dwelling standard. They're asking for an 1,800 turning circle in a visitable unit. Think about how large that powder room just got. Yeah, yeah, no kidding, you have your sink next to your toilet and now you have an 1800 turning circle. It's almost like a bedroom.

Speaker 1:

Well, it's similar to when you go into a wheelchair accessible washroom how much larger they are than a regular washroom.

Speaker 3:

That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And they're trying to incorporate that in all spaces. So again you're serving the 95th percentile. Should you have your friend who uses a manual wheelchair, electric chair come over, they can at least use your space versus having to find a bathroom somewhere else like a common universal washroom in a common corridor.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, wow, yeah, I think when it's a big discussion right now. That is a big discussion, because I mean, especially when you're talking price per square foot.

Speaker 3:

That's just it. Could you imagine and these are conversations I'm actively having right now with both CMHC CSA to kind of align where industry is now? Because going from a toilet next to a sink in a very small space to an 1800 turning circle is a huge jump, yeah, not to mention the costs associated with that per square foot. When you're asking for an 1800 turning circle in a bathroom, you're saying, well, that one bedroom is now a studio because I need a massive bathroom. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Right, and it's not even like the disability community is asking for that large of a turning circle. They're just asking to be able to go to the bathroom with some privacy and be able to close the door behind them.

Speaker 1:

No, I totally get it. That makes sense.

Speaker 3:

There needs to be some some flexibility there.

Speaker 1:

Like I'm pretty sure, like I'm just thinking about where our powder room is. Yeah, I don't think a wheelchair could get in it Because, like our kitchen counter goes like right.

Speaker 3:

Right.

Speaker 1:

And I think it's in order to maneuver around. It might be very difficult.

Speaker 3:

Exactly. So what the National Building Code is trying to publish right now is and it'll fall back on the authority having jurisdiction they'll get to pick what percentage that is. However, some jurisdictions, like, say, vancouver, were to adopt 100 visibility. Yeah, that's. Every single suite has to have a powder room or at least one bathroom that has a 1500 turning circle in it well, is there something to be considered about?

Speaker 1:

um, I mean, and people like bigger bathrooms. Nobody's complaining about a bigger bathroom that has a 1500 turning circle in it. Is there something to be?

Speaker 3:

considered about, I mean, and people like bigger bathrooms. Nobody's complaining about a bigger bathroom, but it does come down to the bottom line.

Speaker 1:

They are one of the bedrooms, eight by eight Exactly. Yeah, yeah, and it used to not be, but obviously you know technology is moving forward in a rapid pace in terms of accessibility. We see lots of new technologies coming out. To some degree are some of these? You know, some of these regulations in terms of size, akin to how big parking spots used to be big cars in the 1960s I mean wheelchairs are going to get smaller and smaller.

Speaker 1:

It's all dependent on what people are using right, I'm just saying, like homes stay for a long time. So like, in five years from now, is the footprint of the typical wheelchair going to be smaller or bigger or whatever. Or exoskeletons are now coming into where people can walk.

Speaker 3:

Let's hope that's the future.

Speaker 1:

That's pretty sweet, though. Have you seen that stuff?

Speaker 3:

Oh man, I have a friend. I have a good friend that has an exoskeleton and she can stand up and yeah, that's unbelievable, I think that technology is wicked. It's incredible.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so you're going to see a lot of big bathrooms with people that To accommodate that right Again, I like to see things from like an equitable perspective.

Speaker 3:

How does it benefit everybody, not just people with disabilities, and I think a turning circle could benefit a lot of the people. But that said, are we taking away livable space for something that's not going to be fully utilized is the question I'm asking.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, I think that you know what's interesting in your business is that you have to level set. You know people need to be able to get into spaces.

Speaker 3:

They do.

Speaker 1:

Period. But when it comes into a private space, like commercial spaces, it's got to be.

Speaker 3:

That's just it. I have no issues with that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's for sure, but your own private space.

Speaker 3:

Is yours it should be unique and flexible.

Speaker 1:

It is and, is, and, but the thing is. What I find hard about this, though, is is that is the majority of real estate not set up for somebody with a disability?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely not.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 3:

No, particularly here in BC. I think Ontario is the only province right now with the most restrictive accessibility housing requirements. Right yeah.

Speaker 1:

But they're still falling short.

Speaker 3:

Everyone's falling short. Yeah, I'm from Calgary. Alberta is definitely falling short. Yeah, in that regard.

Speaker 1:

What is the remedy to this? I mean, are there buildings that are? Is it maybe X amount of suites are reserved for that that have a different footprint in terms of maybe that's the way this goes, because it's obviously having just that specific example you had of that, you know, turning circle within a powder room. I can't see every unit in the building doing that.

Speaker 3:

Not yet. That is what we're striving for, but I think a deeper conversation has to be had. So, if we go back to the BCBC and the new changes, they want 100% adaptable units in all large apartment buildings and condos, but they have requirements that don't require a turning circle but they require transfer space. So you just need, like, a clear rectangle next to your toilet. That'll essentially allow someone to do kind of a T-turn so they can get in. They can get beside the toilet, close the door.

Speaker 1:

With that going backwards.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly Like that's going to be the future. Bc's already seeing it right now. And then, when it comes to programs like CMHC, mli, select they're utilizing, they're making developers comply with much more restrictive requirements and standards.

Speaker 1:

So this is where so do companies call you and they say look, we got this, yeah. And then you kind of, you're the fixer.

Speaker 3:

Well, I go in and I review their drawings so the developer will come to us like we want. We want to achieve the ml. I select program level one, level two yeah uh, so we'll go back. We'll review their drawings, provide them with an uproar of comments because they likely don't comply with the ml I select criteria, and then they have to decide whether or not they're willing to redo some of their floor layouts to accommodate for these more restrictive accessibility requirements. Right.

Speaker 1:

So it's interesting because the visitability is a very interesting term. Yes, because you would have like in software like you know, SightMax is a software company. Yep, yep. We call anything that's not the major amount of the traffic of the software an edge case. Okay, okay, and it's called an edge case because it doesn't happen to. Most people got it right. So the edge case of a visitor at your home and you're not the one with the disability, the person visiting your unit is yes, that is the edge case. Correct.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so we're building for the edge case.

Speaker 3:

Yes, okay, essentially.

Speaker 1:

So building for the edge case and it's the edge case utilizing a restroom, whereas if it was an action if the apartment itself let's just say a condo yeah. An action if the apartment itself let's just say a condo yeah, if the entire condo was set up for that person to live in. That would be an entirely different paradigm in general, because then you would have to have turning spaces next to the bed, so you'd have to have all of this turning stuff everywhere. This is now only applying to the visibility part visitability part yeah because of a guest coming by.

Speaker 3:

Correct. That's the intent. So there's three levels. I said adaptable is kind of your. I mean people are using different terms but in layman's cases, adaptable is just making sure you have certain things in place, like a wider entrance door, you have controls set at an accessible height and you have a bathroom that someone could use. If you had your friend over that uses a wheelchair, for instance. Right, okay, or sorry, that's visitable. I jumped too fast. So adaptable again is just your basic. In the future you can install a grab bar or something. Yeah, very simple. You can get through your front door if you ever had to change to a mobility device or something. Visitable is your level two. Let's say so visible is making sure that your guest who uses a wheelchair can access your space.

Speaker 1:

In your private space.

Speaker 3:

In your private space. So now that they can come in, so say, you have a two-story dwelling, okay, yeah, only the main level has to be accessible. So they have to get through your front door, they have to be able to maneuver your main floor and be able to use the bathroom Right, to use the bathroom right. Okay, then you have accessible, accessible. Those need to be fully accessible. So, yes, you're gonna have, you're gonna probably have a turning circle in your front foyer, you're you might even have larger paths of travel, uh, within your kitchen throughout, going up to and into your bedroom spaces. Accessible path of travel onto the balcony. But that one's arguable, right. Like, if you have your friend over for visitable, why should they not be able to get out to your balcony as well?

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, I mean, the balconies are a whole different.

Speaker 3:

A whole other subject matter you?

Speaker 1:

got to step over them because of the moisture barrier. You got to step over something.

Speaker 3:

So there are ways around that, but they're very expensive. This is the future. There's going to be three levels. You're going to 100% has to be adaptable. A certain percentage is going to be visitable and then a certain percentage is going to be accessible In one building In one building. Yeah, that makes sense, yeah. And then they'll have to be distributed accordingly between grade and the top story and different views, etc. Yeah yeah, you can't just like lump them all in one corner. Yeah they're all on the third floor.

Speaker 3:

Right, yeah, exactly Like there has to be some level of equitable access, but the more people find out about these accessible units being a little larger, they buy them anyway. I can see people wanting them. That's a good point. Have you ever had like a nice large bathroom? I have a very good bathroom. Right, and a really nice large bedroom and these closets that you can actually access. None of that's being provided to a standard unit right now. Yeah, that's true. So I think there's going to be some controversy in the future.

Speaker 1:

So what are most developers getting wrong with this stuff Like, what are you like? Oh, not another one of these.

Speaker 3:

Oh, using the building code as a checklist and just like applying everything versus actually understanding the intent behind accessibility requirements. One example you can have a toilet and a grab bar. You require both in an accessible bathroom. Okay, but if the grab bar isn't located a certain height from the top of the toilet seat and it isn't in close proximity to the front edge of the toilet seat, it renders it useless to the person with a disability who needs to use it yeah right like they have to transfer their body weight onto a toilet to do a lateral transfer.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, if. If it's not, if it's located too high, they can't reach it to leverage their body that makes sense if it's too low, it's not useful either. So it's learning those small intents and learning about the people that are actually utilizing these things to do it correctly.

Speaker 1:

So can we just chat a little bit about this? Other types of disabilities, Sure, so when you're talking ADHD, can you like I'm hazy on that? How does that work?

Speaker 3:

So we're entering an era where we're actually talking about neurodiverse design.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so neurodiverse, that's quite the term.

Speaker 3:

Yes, because it's a broad spectrum and you can be anywhere on that spectrum. So if you have Asperger's syndrome or if you have ADHD or OCD or any of these more prominent cognitive capabilities, I would call them. We need to look at how we're maximizing our performance within our spaces.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so what would be an example of an application to mitigate someone's ADHD?

Speaker 3:

So, for instance, you, just based on what I know about you, I do have ADHD, Do you?

Speaker 1:

I think I might. Oh yeah, Honestly right. Yeah, I can't sit still.

Speaker 3:

It's the focus, it's the sit still. But do you thrive in a busy environment like this, Like if you had to get a task done would you be able to do it with? With input like this With all of the people around you right now.

Speaker 1:

That'd be.

Speaker 3:

So a lot of people started shifting a couple of years ago from individual office spaces to open concept office spaces For a person like me. I get very distracted in open concept spaces, so it's ensuring that office spaces actually create breakout spaces, meeting rooms or wellness spaces so that I can actually go and decompress, I can de-stimulate. That is neurodiverse design. Looking at the lighting can I have my own task lighting? Can I have my own flex lighting?

Speaker 1:

So this is crazy. So this is when I say crazy, I don't mean as in insane, I think it's crazy in terms of how we're going to see so the whole return to office.

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Has really shaken things up.

Speaker 3:

Massively.

Speaker 1:

Because people are going. I, I gotta go back to this. I didn't like it there, but I had to go and there was no real, it was just status quo, that was it. Yeah. But then when it was like, okay, well, now I was, I get to be at home and I've got this you're in your thing, the comfort of your own space. Yes, and then now I'm coming back. We've seen the large tech companies, you know, having their offices called campuses.

Speaker 3:

We've seen that yeah.

Speaker 1:

And you know, having food supplied and these different types of they're thinking about everything in order to maximize productivity 100% Okay. Different types of they're thinking about everything in order to maximize productivity one 100 okay. So I think what we're this is where your, your business, starts to become very interesting is now you're in the productivity business, yes, not just in the accessibility business, correct, which is pretty exciting it actually is, because we're helping so many organizations figure out what to do, because all of their workers don't want to go back to work.

Speaker 3:

Think of all those empty office towers, right now um, and they're panicking because they're paying large leases on these or they're you know, they're paying for their spaces and they need to occupy them yeah so when we go in and we do our accessibility reviews, we layer it with that.

Speaker 3:

I guess we could call it a neurodiverse component in that. How do we get people to thrive in these office spaces? How do we make them come back? So, if they're comfortable working from a couch, why not incorporate a couple of couches throughout your office space? Create that flexibility and that warm environment that they want to go to. If I don't want to be working at my desk the entire day, again, do I have that breakout space? Do I have that respite area I can go to? Or, if I'm more a busy bee and I like that social zone, where can I be to perform with my colleagues?

Speaker 1:

Interesting. Is this more prevalent or less prevalent in the United States?

Speaker 3:

That's a great question. I would say it is a common discussion, or a growing discussion in the US, because they are the ones who started and they do have a neurodiverse design standard or guideline, whereas we're in Canada, we don't have one specific to us yet.

Speaker 1:

So have you heard that statistic around that the Canadians are 60% as productive as Americans?

Speaker 3:

I have not heard that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's like really bad and I just and the reason I ask is because you know we have we're 60% as productive. Yes.

Speaker 3:

Okay yeah, as productive.

Speaker 1:

Yes, okay, yeah, and I wonder if so. I've had a current experience of having staff in the US. Okay, and it's a different thing. Yeah, the hustle's different. I don't know what that is and I wonder if you match the hustle with the productivity optimization through what your consultants are Through your built environment. Yeah, exactly Because I think where we need to get to in Canada because you're a Canadian business and you're doing business in Canada here is we need to get these numbers up so that our dollar doesn't end up at 50 cents.

Speaker 3:

You know, I truly believe that, I truly believe that our built environment, like happiness is so important. Yes, and I think the U S one has more money to do those things and spend on those things than Canadians have, and so that's where we fall short a little bit. That's not to say that larger organizations aren't trying to maximize those efforts. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Who doesn't want to thrive in their environment? Who doesn't want to go to work? But if all you're going to do is provide a gray box with a desk in it, nobody wants to go to that every day. You have to be willing to bring in biophilic design measures, so incorporating nature into your spaces.

Speaker 1:

That's the second time I've heard biophilic.

Speaker 3:

Yes, thinking about the colors you're using and how they're in tune with the activity or task of that space. There's so much more than just accessibility. Yet you're trying to again maximize what our capabilities are within those buildings yeah so we need to rethink about the typical workspace or even our living environment, right?

Speaker 1:

because I think over time, I think we've all always been neurodiverse uh, I believe that wholeheartedly. I I mean it's just always been there. Yes, it's just never been addressed.

Speaker 3:

But now people are actually talking about it.

Speaker 1:

Right. I mean it's on the recruitment side. It's all really rough right, because you're thinking well, business is hard as it is. I want killers, don't want anyone. I don't want that. Some people, some people, I can't do it because the dollar is too hard to go get. And what I find is interesting is I would sort of put my finger in the air and say that a high percentage of companies they're not all thinking about this stuff. A lot of the revenue and a lot of the GDP that's created is not big companies. There's a lot of small companies, that a lot of the gdp that's created is not big companies. There's a lot of small companies. They're not even thinking of this. They're just like go, go, go, go go an interesting statistic on gdp.

Speaker 3:

If we made more workspaces accessible and layered on that neurodiverse aspect actually yeah, our gdp would grow by 18 billion dollars is it uncommon, incumbent on the government to put programs together for this thing, because otherwise it's got to come out. It's got to come out of someone's wallet so here's the thing, and the sad reality of it is that accessibility shouldn't have to be incentivized, but because it's never been built into the norm of design yeah you have to incentivize in order for these large organizations small organizations to get on board with it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the government just hasn't provided those programs yet, although I strongly encourage them to do so so what are you excited about in your, in your industry coming in the next five years here? Oh man what gives you that? Oh man awesome technology okay technology like what we're talking about exoskeleton that's just it.

Speaker 3:

I think the evolving intelligence behind digitizing accessibility is massive. The capabilities that someone has from their smartphone to like unlock their door, to turn on their lights, turn off their lights to add assistive listening systems to spaces so that people can actually hear conversations.

Speaker 3:

People who are blind again using navigational apps to get them through a building or an exhibition like this. Digitizing accessible PDFs so that people can receive the information they need in whichever way it's endless, so I'm super excited about accessible innovation tech. That's cool. Yeah, you know there's. So I'm super excited about accessible innovation tech, that's cool.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know there's, so I'm going to give you a compliment here. Okay, so don't blush. But I always find, like you know, talking to people, you can pretty much figure out if they're like a cerebral thinker or not, and you're one of those. Oh, I appreciate that, that's really cool, yeah, so I think the industry is going to be better off and people are going to thank you for everything that you've done. So that's pretty cool, thank you. Yeah, so good luck with everything. How do people get ahold of you?

Speaker 3:

Contact me at Samantha at abefactorscom. You can go to wwwabefactorscom as well, but yeah, there's lots of ways to get ahold of me. Another cool thing that I would like to bring up is that I'm the co-author of a pretty neat book called Building Better Bathrooms, which is actually an Amazon bestseller. So go check it out.

Speaker 1:

That's cool.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

All right. Well, thank you very much. This has been very informative for me and I'm sure everyone will love this content. So thank you very much.

Speaker 3:

Awesome. Thank you so much for having me Right on.

Speaker 1:

Well, that does it for another episode of the Site Visit. Thank you for listening. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube. You can also sign up for our monthly newsletter at sitemaxsystemscom slash the site visit, where you'll get industry insights, pro tips and everything you need to know about the site visit podcast and SiteMax, the job site and construction management tool of choice for thousands of contractors in North America and beyond. Sitemax is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building.