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The Future of Wood Construction with Alejandro Coronado, Technical Advisor at WoodWorks BC

• James Faulkner

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Imagine a world where our cities are not only more sustainable but also inviting and warm—mass timber construction is paving the way for this vision. In this episode, we engage with Alejandro Coronado, Technical Advisor at WoodWorks BC to explore the unique benefits of integrating wood into modern architecture. Discover how this dynamic material is not just a beautiful choice but also a smart one—offering a sustainable alternative to steel and concrete while contributing to lower carbon emissions.

Alejandro discusses the mission of the Canadian Wood Council, a nonprofit organization dedicated to enhancing the understanding of wood as a structural material. He shares fascinating insights into the role mass timber plays in addressing environmental challenges while ensuring building efficiency. With its capacity to offer speedy assembly and flexibility in design, mass timber is gaining traction among developers who recognize its potential for tall structures up to 18 stories under recent code revisions.

We delve into the science of biophilic design, appreciating how natural textures and aesthetics contribute to inhabitant well-being, and why people are increasingly drawn to wood in their environments. As we navigate through regulatory updates, Alejandro provides valuable advice on how developers can capitalize on these advancements to promote eco-friendly and innovative building practices.

Join us for an enlightening conversation that engages both the architectural community and anyone interested in sustainable living. Dive into this episode to learn about the possibilities that lie ahead for the construction industry and how together, we can build a more sustainable future. Don't forget to subscribe, share your thoughts, and leave us a review!

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Site. Visit Podcast leadership and perspective from construction with your host, James Faulkner, Recorded live from the show floor at BuildX Vancouver 2025. All right, here we are at BuildX with Alejandro Coronado. How are you doing today?

Speaker 2:

Pretty good, amazing to be here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

Perfect. So Woodworks BC, so part of the Woodworks Council.

Speaker 2:

you're saying yeah, so Woodworks is a technical resource group from the Canadian Wood Council.

Speaker 1:

Oh, the Canadian Wood Council yes we're a non-profit organization.

Speaker 2:

We have been around since the 50s or the 60s. We are really here to drive mass timber and light frame adoption in the construction industry. Basically, our goal is to maximize the use of wood that we have.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so in terms of when you say the wood that we have, are we talking new product and also reclaimed wood as well?

Speaker 2:

Reclaimed wood, not specifically for the Canadian Wood Council, but there have been some recent efforts looking into the sustainability and the actual feasibility of using reclaimed wood in existing buildings. There are just a few complications when it comes to the structural design of it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. But yeah, a few complications when it comes to the structural design of it, yeah, but yeah, yeah, I know there's a company called Clearview Demolition, I think, and they actually go and reclaim as much as possible. That's pretty amazing what they can do. But so let's specifically talk about you. So you are a technical advisor for Woodworks BC. Take me through your day. Like, what are you advising on? What's on the?

Speaker 2:

when you say technical advisor, take us through what you're doing on a day-to-day basis. Yeah, for sure, so this is more of a recent role for me. I'm a structural engineer by training. Okay, I spent numerous years in the in construction industry as a structural engineer in a consulting firm, so I have a lot of technical experience in the design of light frame and massive buildings and my role at WoodPurse is really leveraging that design experience to help engineers and architects that are trying to get into wood construction either light frame or mass teamwork.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I see. Okay, Just a question like what is the motivation for those companies, for those architects, for those developers in those projects to integrate those materials into the build? Is there a reason in terms of environmental reasons? Is there a green reason? What is the main push?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. The answer really depends on the type of construction that we're looking at. If we consider a light frame like stick frame, for example, five to six story mid rise wood is an effective and really cost effective solution because it goes up relatively quick and you can go to a lumber yard and get a bunch of two by four, two by sixes, and it's really malleable. So you can doable.

Speaker 1:

It's easy to cut.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Yeah, it's easy to cut on site, so it's really a good way of building five to six stories, but when we get beyond that, then we're really looking at mass timber buildings.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah, so classify just for those when you say mass timber, give us the technical description of where things fall into the category of mass timber.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure. So I usually manage three different terms. So it's light frame the same as thick frame, so 2x4, 2x6, stud wall construction, what we have historically done. There's also heavy timber which uses more of a post and beam type construction with larger cross sections, which is what we did historically in the early 1900s, for example, with 20 by 20 inches of Douglas fir columns and beams.

Speaker 1:

Right, and that's like old school stuff you still see in Yaletown. Absolutely it's like concrete, you can't even drill into it. Absolutely the whole growth cedar yeah.

Speaker 2:

And then the other will be mass timber, which is really heavy timber, but with a panelization approach. So that's where we see cross laminated timber slabs, for example oh, gotcha, okay, yeah, okay, okay.

Speaker 1:

So those, yeah, so those are like the manufactured, like large, uh posts that are made from laminated yes, exactly composite materials yes, so so we're talking about a bit of composite materials.

Speaker 2:

So we talk about glulam which will be used for columns and posts and beams. Yeah, so it's really just using sun lumber with structural glue cured.

Speaker 1:

I mean, we've seen that. I mean that basically started with the oriented strand board, the original, and even Medite turned into that like a particle board. Yeah, original, you know, and even medite turned into that like a particle board. Yeah, but uh, so this is just the new, uh, the new version of that for, um, and also laminating a lot of them together to create a large beam, yeah for sure, and also even a panelized system.

Speaker 2:

So we have nail laminated timber that you can use with 2x4, 2x6 and that was sort of like the original precursor to mass timber. That was a lot in the 1950s and 60s as well, with the very early glulam beams that we had with an NLT decking.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so in terms of the mass timber side, on the structural side, is there any issues in terms of off gassing of the glues and like from a from an environmental point of view, obviously, like it's a, it's a, it's a, um, an alternative to concrete in many ways, uh, from a structural point of view so, and obviously concrete. The big issue is a lot of companies are trying to figure out how to lower the environmental impact on off-gassing from concrete. So with these is most of the glue off-gassing that's already happened and done with. On the manufacturing process.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it is, and the sustainability impacts of massing were really small because it is the only renewable construction material that we have. Right?

Speaker 1:

Okay, so that's cool. So it's basically coming. A lot of it's coming from byproducts, from sawmills, etc. From making other types of wood products, and you're able to make these large beams.

Speaker 2:

Not necessarily. These are trees specifically grown for mass timber.

Speaker 1:

Okay, take us through that. That's something I'm not quite aware of, so take us through that, yeah.

Speaker 2:

It really depends how the company is set up. We have different types of suppliers here in BC. We have a few that are vertically integrated. They manage their own forest.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

So they do a lot of the falling of the trees and the processing of the logs all the way to the construction side, when they actually supply and manufacture the CLT and glulamines.

Speaker 1:

And what type of species of trees are these.

Speaker 2:

Typically, it's most commonly spruce pine fir. Okay, although it really depends For panelized systems. Spf is one of the most common ones, but we can also Hem fir is gaining a bit of popularity because it's a very underutilized, which is Hemfer Hemlock.

Speaker 1:

Oh, Hemlock yes.

Speaker 2:

So it's very underutilized in terms of the structural applications.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And we have a lot of it going around, so it's just a really good use to start using it for analyzed systems.

Speaker 1:

So what is the growth time for sapling all the way up to having something you can use? How many years is that?

Speaker 2:

I'm not actually quite sure, but I would say all of this the forestry is done in a very sustainable manner. So it's not like we're cutting every single tree in the forest. It's very well managed, not just by the companies themselves, but also by the provincial and federal governments.

Speaker 1:

I've heard these statistics on many podcasts that the earth is the greenest it's ever been in years. Have you heard that before?

Speaker 2:

First time that I hear it, but I mean it does make sense. Yes, with the active approach to forest management that we have and reforestation, absolutely yes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, even when something's been completely clear-cut, at least they're replanting it.

Speaker 2:

you know, a season later, um, and it's turning green again yeah, exactly, and that's a cycle that they go through every every a few decades. I would say, like they don't. They're not coming back to the same spot, right? It's like they have these huge parcels of land that they subdivide and then they lease out, they do the forestry that they need to do, and then maybe they don't come back for 40 or 50 years, just letting the forest regrowth in a natural manner.

Speaker 1:

Did you feel free to just say no? I don't know about that, but there was a project down here on Pender Street. There was a wedge. It was going to be an all timber high rise that I think was going to be like 20 floors and it was all going to be. Did you know about that one?

Speaker 2:

I'm not really sure what project that will be. Maybe I'm blanking out on the name, but I think I may know which one it is. Yeah, it was meant to be.

Speaker 1:

I think Port Living or Port was going to be doing it. It was on Pender, in between Pender and Hastings.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the Earth Tower.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was like a wedge, a wedge shape. But what was interesting about that is that the architect, I believe, yeah made plans for that to be mass timber and then, I think, the developer bought it and then they wouldn't let them redevelop it in a different way with the same plans.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I remember now, I think it was Terra's house.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

The architect was Shigeru Ban. Yes, yeah, yes.

Speaker 1:

So are you familiar with what kind of structure that was going to be originally planned?

Speaker 2:

That was an interesting one. As far as I don't really have the details, but I understand that it was more of a hybrid type structure. So it's going to be mostly concrete. And then back then you weren't really allowed to have a tall mass timber building in the way that we do now. So, the top six floors or so was going to be mass timber. It was meant to be the tallest hybrid mass timber building in the world.

Speaker 1:

Wow, was that something? You guys were pretty excited that that was going to go through.

Speaker 2:

I mean absolutely, but it's like if you look at the international landscape now, it's like that idea is just. I know we're so far beyond it at this point. For example, in Milwaukee we have a 24-story mass timber tower.

Speaker 1:

Wow, crazy Okay.

Speaker 2:

For residential use. So the pace that we have developing mass timber buildings it's been staggering. Like in our building code we just amended it last year to allow for 18 stories.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

And we already have a lot of interest from developers and other clients really keen on exploring that idea of a tall mass timber building in Vancouver with these new regulations, because it's a very effective way of building. It's more similar to concrete.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so take us through that. So when you say, and you're talking like Vancouver, specifically like building code, has now allowed for this, vancouver, specifically like building code has now allowed for this In BC specifically, but we were actually sort of like the second location to approve of this change. So what is the change?

Speaker 2:

Allowing for up to 18 stories of encapsulated mass timber construction. Okay, so let me take you to the sort of like the history of construction. So we have been doing heavy timber buildings historically for more than 100 years. As we were chatting about before, we have eight-story buildings right here in Gaston, completely in perfect shape with heavy timber construction, and brick. And brick yes.

Speaker 1:

A structural brick, brick and masonry.

Speaker 2:

Yes, absolutely, and heavy timber. But in 1953, with the second edition of the NBC, we actually got downgraded so we could only build up to four stories of wood construction in general. And what was the reason for that? There were a lot of fire safety concerns at the time. We just really didn't understand the science behind fire safety.

Speaker 1:

I would say Was any of it to do with the earthquake at all? I would say, was any of it to do with the earthquake at all?

Speaker 2:

Not really. No, because, like with these systems, we mostly develop hybrid systems at this point. So yeah, Okay so we had this four-story limit for about 70 years, until really 2009, when we were allowed to go up to six stories now, okay.

Speaker 1:

Wow, two floors it is.

Speaker 2:

But it's like if you look at Vancouver now, it's like you see six-story live-front buildings going on like at every single corner.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2:

But now with mass timber buildings, that really opened up sort of like a completely new sector beyond the six-story market. So now we're looking at seven to 12 stories. A few years ago, yeah, and now we're looking. We were looking at 7 to 12 stories a few years ago, yeah, and now we're looking from 12 to 18. And then that may actually change again in the next code cycle, allowing for up to 24 stories of mass infrastructure.

Speaker 1:

So, in terms of construction costs, how much is it? Is it a large cost savings?

Speaker 2:

That is a really interesting question because it really depends how you look at it.

Speaker 2:

interesting question because it really depends how you look at it. If you're looking at material costs volume like a cubic foot of material mass inverter it is a premium material compared to concrete. However, it meshes really well with prefabrication approaches because it is inherently a prefabricated panelized system. So there is significant speed of construction benefits that you get by going with a mass inverter system. So in that case, once you account for those efficiencies in erection times, you may save up to 20% of the construction time by only really adding maybe 5% premium for the materials by itself. So overall it would say it's competitive with concrete in the tall building range.

Speaker 1:

And that makes sense? Yeah, because when you think of forming concrete, you're basically creating a structure in order to pour into it. Yeah, absolutely, and then you're taking that down.

Speaker 2:

And we have an excellent example for this. There was a recent case study done by Woodworks US on 1510 Webster. It's an 18-story massive building in California. It was designed from the ground up to be prefabricated and very quick to erect, so towards the end of construction they were building two floors per week which is staggering to think about. You will absolutely never get that in a concrete building.

Speaker 1:

Well, you're not waiting for anything to dry.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely yes.

Speaker 1:

That's pretty cool. They were able to actually shave off three months on their construction schedule by going with a prefabricated mass timber approach so, um, most of the time there's there's, there's clearly a um, a metal works component to, to connecting the, the mass timber components, I would say yeah, so the prefabrication of beams et cetera and the connectors, it's pretty much the Lego version of everything showing up on site and kind of just working and it's being put together.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely In an idea world. Yes, that's what, and that's what a lot of mass timber companies used to sell their products is they call it a kit of parts?

Speaker 1:

yeah, it's parts.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly yeah they just assemble it together. If you design in the right way, like you, can go extremely quick because you're not really building anything on site, you're mostly assembling assembling.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that's cool. The um. So what are the? What opportunities um is there for builders and developers to consider, like when they're in the in the consideration process of you know a new build, up to 18 stories, what are the benefits for them over time, for them to consider mass timber, for instance?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure. To begin with, it would definitely be the speed of construction benefits that we mentioned.

Speaker 1:

We'll have a bubbly break. Let's see, there we go Nice. That sounds good. I see we both picked the watermelon. Absolutely, the we go Nice, that sounds good. I see we both picked the watermelon.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely the best flavor, nice, all right. So yeah, going back to it, definitely so. There are a few different metrics that you can measure mass timber for. One of them is the cost. Again, it's like if it's designed the right way, it can be really competitive, especially in that 7 to to 18-story market. But also sustainability. We can shave off a lot of embodied carbon in these buildings simply by using mass timber, but to really understand how the benefits or the.

Speaker 1:

Can you double-click on that for a second? Just on the carbon. So where does that work in the economics of a building when you're saying shaving that off? Can you just get into that a little bit more?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so every material has an embodied carbon attached to it in a way. So, that is carbon that is going to be emitted through manufacturing, the supply, the manipulation of that material until it's decombustion, basically, I see Okay. So mass timber has an inherent advantage in this case, because it is a renewable organic material.

Speaker 1:

Gotcha Okay.

Speaker 2:

That, as it grows, it actually absorbs carbon from the atmosphere. Right, so the idea is we are replacing every single tree that we felt in the forest.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

That is going to be a massive rebuilding, so in theory we are actually sucking up carbon from the atmosphere.

Speaker 1:

Ah, okay, I got you by building with mass. Okay, that makes sense. Okay, so there are. It seems to me there's a A couple of elements there For buildings that are. I mean, every developer is always trying to sell the project, unless they're a developer who just wants it for themselves. There's always going to be that end-use brand message of this is the type of building. It is an element of sustainability to it which is an attractive, not a brand driver, but a brand justifier on why somebody should either inhabit that space or invest in that space because of that signal that it is a sustainable building. So we've all seen that, from LEED to a whole bunch of other different programs out there. So is there an attractive element to buildings that use mass timber? As you see going forward, is this going to be ubiquitous over time or is it still an X factor for buildings' attractive buildability?

Speaker 2:

It really depends which sector we're considering. If we're talking about tall wood construction, the most likely encapsulated buildings, so you're not going to see a lot of wood in there.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

So it's really not a factor per se, because people choose it for sustainability mostly.

Speaker 1:

So it's behind the walls.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. But in low-rise and mid-rise construction we can actually now expose 100% of the mass timber elements.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Up to eight stories.

Speaker 1:

Almost a design feature.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely yes, I see, I mean historically. We have seen Massimer being used in institutional buildings specifically for this reason.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

For the biophilic effects, because people really like the look. What did you say? Biophilic, yeah, biophilic, take me through that. Biophilic yes, it's sort of like the warm and fuzzy feelings that you get by being in a space enclosed by water.

Speaker 1:

Wow, I like that. Yes, biophilic.

Speaker 2:

It just makes people feel good. It's like what I heard one time from an architect you will never see anyone reaching out and touching a concrete column, but you will definitely see it on a wood building. Interesting People interact with these buildings way more than if it was still concrete, because they want to touch the wood itself.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And they like how it feels just being inside of this environment.

Speaker 1:

What's a biophilic rating of this environment? Today? I'm touching the table. It's pretty low, yes, pretty low, absolutely. That's cool, that's a great term. The biophilic appeal, yeah, I could totally see that, because I think it is obviously inherent in nature of us going up to a tree and touching it and feeling, and they talk about I know you heard about this like walking around bare feet, yeah, the grounding, yeah the whole grounding thing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so this is maybe something through you know ocular senses that where you're going to, you know have this feeling, just by the way things look.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. And we actually just a quick shout out to our Woodworks educational program because we just had a session on biophilic design for buildings in BC.

Speaker 1:

Do you have like a lexicon director who comes up with all these great words? Yes, that's pretty awesome.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So I just wanted to ask you something about this. You know we saw these. I was watching this. Adam Carolla was driving through Malibu and there's these buildings that were built out of concrete and metal. They're all there. All the wood frame ones are gone. So what is this like? Is this the fire rating and all, like you were saying that in the past, over the 70 years, that was one of the reasons. Today, you know where we're at with this. Is this? Is that affecting the brand? Have you seen any kind of conversation around that? Was there? Maybe? Take us through, like the messaging of wood and sustainability through safety and fire and et cetera.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we have seen some comments, I would say specifically because of the recent fires in LA, but that is a really difficult thing to address, specifically when it comes to light frame and mid-rise construction.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Because there are so many other factors that affect the fire performance of a building. Yeah, and something that we really need to understand is like every material has a fire rating capacity. It's not just wood that is just going to burst into flames, right yeah, even concrete and steel, like if you hit, hit it like it needs to be fire rated because it will lose the structural strength.

Speaker 2:

yeah fair enough, as you heat it up so it's really most of the way that we design these buildings as a whole, as a systematic approach, instead like as opposed to looking at the, the sort of like the skeleton of the structure itself to see if it can withstand the fire or not right because the fire shouldn't even get to the structure to begin with.

Speaker 1:

That's a very good point. Maybe if the fire hydrants worked.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. Regardless of the material that you're using, there are cool provisions that you need to meet for fire rating requirements.

Speaker 1:

In British Columbia it seems like and this is kind of like a West Coast thing the use of the biophilic factor, if you will, of seeing this mass timber. It's a very cool thing. Like even here at the convention center. Have you seen that the wood feature wall on the east side of the building? Yes, it's amazing. Yes, all that end grain little squares, absolutely Holy crap. Yes, I mean, that's so. That would be a biophilic overload.

Speaker 2:

Yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1:

yes, yeah, that's pretty cool. So maybe like what, do you have any sort of advocational tips for developers or builders who are thinking you know, maybe they should go down this route? Like, what sort of services do you have on a consultative point of view? Do people reach out to you and say, hey, we're thinking of doing this XYZ development? How could you guys help us?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, and we have been approaching and working with a lot of developers in the lower mainland that are interested in this. There are a few looking at 18-story massive residential towers currently.

Speaker 2:

And we definitely are here to help. So, as I mentioned, we're a nonprofit organization, so we do everything free of charge. So we're really here to help and teach people about Massimilitar, because we find that there is a lot of knowledge in our industry but it's kind of siloed in a few people or like a few companies. So we're trying to share that around, really make sure that everybody understands what the benefits are and, most importantly, how to actually get it done on site, because we feel like sometimes there is a bit of a disconnect there between people that actually know how to do it and the people actually on the site doing it.

Speaker 1:

So what are you most excited about in the next five, six years in your sector, like what's you know within wood construction? What's the things that make you go?

Speaker 2:

oh, I can't wait till we get to advocate for this it will definitely be tall construction in general and really mainstream developers getting behind it. We're getting to the point where mass timber will probably become more cost effective on concrete, specifically for that seven to 18 sort of range. So we're're gonna start seeing a lot more residential towers, probably in vancouver. So like our goal is sort of like for vancouver to be like the, the wood city that a lot of architects and city planners dream about, nice. We're getting there, but there's still a long ways away okay, well, how do people get in touch with you?

Speaker 2:

uh, just shoot us an email. You can uh go to the woodworksca website.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

Or, yeah, just reach out at any point and we're here to help with any technical questions, support, development, anything.

Speaker 1:

All right. Well, that's been awesome. Thank you very much, Alejandro. I appreciate it and thank you for coming on the site visit.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely my pleasure.

Speaker 1:

Have a cookie or a brownie. I do.

Speaker 2:

All right.

Speaker 1:

That's good. Thanks, man, Thanks. Well, that does it for another episode of the Site Visit. Thank you for listening. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube. You can also sign up for our monthly newsletter at sitemaxsystemscom slash the site visit, where you'll get industry insights, pro tips and everything you need to know about the site visit podcast and sitemax, the job site and construction management tool of choice for thousands of contractors in North America and beyond. Sitemax is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building.