The SiteVisit

Innovation and Resilience in the Heart of Brooklyn with Zach Rapaport, Principal at Meerkat Companies

• James Faulkner

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We're thrilled to have Zach Rapaport, Principal at Meerkat Companies, join us. His intriguing career path is a testament to the power of finding one's true calling. Zach shares how he carved out a niche for himself as an owner's representative, bridging the gap between clients and contractors and ensuring projects run smoothly from start to finish. His insights into the dynamic world of construction, and the trends shaping it, offer a unique perspective for anyone interested in development.

The episode also explores the entrepreneurial spirit, as Zach narrates his journey from managing projects remotely to founding his own company. Discover why Meerkat Companies became the perfect mascot for project management, emphasizing teamwork and adaptability. We wrap up with a look at future trends in the construction industry, including the shift to digital tools and the strategic focus on renovations in response to rising costs. Join us for an engaging conversation that blends development and innovation in the ever-evolving landscape of Brooklyn and beyond.

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Speaker 1:

All right. So from Brooklyn today, what's the deal with the pizza? All I keep hearing is that Brooklyn is like the Mecca of New York for pizza. Is that the deal?

Speaker 2:

It's in the water, man? Yeah, it's in the water.

Speaker 1:

It's in the water. They say that. Right, it is in the water.

Speaker 2:

We have the best tap water probably in the country, and I stand by that, not as a New York elitist, but as a pseudoscientist. It all comes from upstate, through an aquifer, and we use it for the best pizzas, the best bagels, you name it, it's, it is the best nice and then Brooklyn is.

Speaker 1:

You know was always kind of this place. I don't know back in I don't know the 80s and 90s of sort of this downtrodden kind of this place. I don't know back in the 80s and 90s of sort of this downtrodden kind of place, and now it's like the hip, the place in Manhattan. It's kind of this old place that's kind of not cool anymore, it seems.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and a big reason for that. Actually I'm kind of like I wouldn't call myself an actual historian, but I have been kind of studying a little bit about New York history and eventually I do want to get my tour guide license and actually do some tours on the side because I think that would be cool. I love living here and I'm definitely a bona fide New Yorker. But the basis of that is actually that manufacturing moved away from the waterfront in Brooklyn and it was historically not very valuable real estate. And then when manufacturing moved out to cheaper real estate and easier, I guess, for logistics, all of those waterfront parcels became available and then developers saw that as a great opportunity and they started building it up and then it started building out from the East River throughout Brooklyn.

Speaker 1:

So that's a bit of etymology about that and now it's all high, nice looking high rises. Right, that's it. Yeah, the same thing happened here. Nothing gritty about it anymore. Yeah, I mean the whole, uh, false creek used to be a, a logging area where the trains were in vancouver, and now it's all high rises.

Speaker 1:

That's just the way it goes, you know lots of copper in Falls Creek, though I think Lots of bad metals in there. But we're going to talk about Meerkat today and you being your company, that you started being an owner's rep for hospitality, construction and development pretty cool. I love food personally and I love great restaurant experiences. It all shocks me how there's a big dichotomy from people who love making food as a craft and then people who want to own a restaurant big difference difference.

Speaker 2:

You probably see this One of my first questions Do you want to own a restaurant because you like to cook? Because if you don't, maybe you shouldn't. It's not exactly it's a business. It's a lovely business when it's done right, but it could be a major challenge, so that's a big qualifier for me, for sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I've always said how can you possibly get this wrong? Something super basic. When I'm in a restaurant, I'm like this is all you do. You don't do anything else but this, and this is not right. So yeah, I hear you. Welcome to the Site. Visit Podcast Leadership and perspective from construction With your host, james Falkner. Business as usual, as it has been for so long now that it goes back to what we were talking about before hitting the reset button. You read all the books, you read the email, you read Scaling Up, you read Good to Great. You know I could go on. We've got to a place where we found the secret serum.

Speaker 2:

We found the secret potion. We can get the workers in. We know where to get them.

Speaker 1:

Once I was on the job site for a while actually we had a semester phone group and I ordered like a Korean-F me up on LinkedIn out of the blue and said he was driving from Oklahoma to Dallas to meet with me because he heard the Faber Connect platform on your guys' podcast Own it, crush it and love it, and we celebrate these values every single day. Let's get down to it. So it's Zach Rapoport. Is that how I pronounce it? Rapoport?

Speaker 2:

Rapoport Rap Hard T.

Speaker 1:

Oh, with the hard T, Hard T, Rapoport. Oh, is that? Who's the other? Who's that famous actor, the other guy, Rapoport? What's his name?

Speaker 2:

Michael Rapoport.

Speaker 1:

Is it the same pronunciation then?

Speaker 2:

It is. Yeah, I actually, strangely enough, I saw him walking around a neighborhood in Manhattan and he was too far away from me to say hi, but I was going to tell him I was a long lost cousin. He probably would have called the cops or something.

Speaker 1:

So is he from Brooklyn. Are you from Brooklyn, born and raised then?

Speaker 2:

I'm from just outside the city on Long Island. Oh, long Island, okay, is can learn like born and raised then uh, I'm from just outside the city on long island oh, long island.

Speaker 1:

Okay, is that where he's from too?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I think he's from the city. Um, I should know that before I approach him the next time I see him so what's the lineage of that last name?

Speaker 1:

is that uh like what's what's uh, is it there?

Speaker 2:

yeah, it's uh, it's actually a polish-Ukrainian, okay cool. So my grandparents on my dad's side are from Grodno, which was actually Poland when they were born, and now it's actually part of Belarus, oh nice. And then my mom's side is from Ireland and the UK.

Speaker 1:

So got a little bit of everything going on Nice, nice, that's cool, All right. Got a little bit of everything going on Nice, nice, that's cool, All right. So we're going to talk today about your company and how you sort of carve yourself a niche there and being an owner's rep for developers, restaurant owners, people doing development of hospitality, et cetera. But before we get into that, I want to know like how'd you end up here and how you seem like a pretty young guy kind of young, I am.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so you've stuffed 34. Okay, well 34,.

Speaker 1:

You've stuffed a lot of experience into a short period of time, so you must be really into this. So let's just tell us the DNA until today Well, maybe not the diapers to today, but maybe the you know post high school, like what was the? Hey, I got to get into construction, I want to learn about legal I? You know, I've got a couple of notes here. You sort of you've covered the gamut in terms of useful education or self-education or experience. So, yes, take us through it useful education or self-education or experience.

Speaker 2:

So, yes, take us through it. Yeah, for sure I'd love to. So, growing up, my parents always thought that I would be a great attorney, not because I was good at arguing, but because anytime that I didn't want to go to bed or I wanted dessert, I would always put together a syllogistic response that included points. And you know, even as young as you know, six or seven and I was never, you know, fighting them on it. But I would say, hey, you said a week ago that you know, these three days I would be able to get, have ice cream or whatever the case was. So I was always thinking logically about how to respond to people on things. I was always thinking logically about how to respond to people on things Still do, but, you know, not as a lawyer. So when I graduated high school, I was thinking to myself you know, I've been told basically my whole life that, you know, being a lawyer would make sense for me. And so I went to college for political science and legal studies, suny Geneseo, up in Western New York, near Rochester. And it turns out that all I needed was four years of political science and legal studies to realize that I didn't want to be a lawyer or a politician. So shortly after I graduated I was, you know. I felt like I still needed to continue on that path, even though I knew that it's not really what I wanted.

Speaker 2:

But I moved home to live with my parents my mom and dad while I figured out my next move after college and I was studying for the LSAT and my dad was a developer on Long Island. He did mostly smaller retail build-outs like out-of-grounds think like strip malls, buildouts like out of grounds think like, you know, strip malls and things like that on long island. Um, and he came home one day from work and he was just like dude, like you know thick new york accent. Um, give it to me, he passed in 20, he passed in 2020, so it's, uh, it's, but it's. It's a great memory that I him.

Speaker 2:

He comes home and he's just like dude, what are you doing? You look miserable, miserable, like, grab your boots, come out on the job site with me tomorrow and let's see if you like it. And I was like I don't know if I want to Like. You know, growing up, I always spent summers working with him and, you know, moving dirt around and you know all that. So I was like I don't know if I want to do this, but I went out with him and I showed up and I was all excited. I had my college degree now and I was like, all right, I'm going to be a project manager. Like overnight I just had this like idea that that's what I wanted to do. And I show up on site and, uh, I was like all right, cool. Like you know what's, what's the plan for today, thinking that he's going to like run me through, like what the electricians are doing and the plumbers and everybody. And he just hands me a shovel and he says you dig. And I was like what, what are you talking about? Like, you know, I'm, I'm a college grad now I should be, you know, I should be in management and I was just immediately humbled and I think that that was really critical for me, because I still feel that humility, you know, I still feel like I wouldn't say imposter syndrome, because I am very well qualified and you know, I have, you know, the experiential backing, but still stay humble and I think that that helps me stay focused on the main goal instead of focusing on things that are kind of tertiary and, you know, outside of my scope, I should say so I worked with him for for a couple, for a couple of years out on Long Island and then I decided that I wanted to.

Speaker 2:

You know, I had bigger. I had bigger plans. I really fell in love with construction. I fell in love with the whole process of it. The team works, you know, the team works in one fluid movement to go from A to B. I loved seeing a space that was white boxed or freshly demolished turn into something really beautiful. We did some interior work as well. So it was just a natural progression for me. I fell in love with it and then I realized that I wanted to do bigger things.

Speaker 2:

So I ended up moving into the city, into New York city, and working with, working with a contractor on that that focused mainly on hotels, restaurants and retail work interiors, worked with them for a couple of years as an assistant project manager and then got elevated quite quickly actually within my first, I think, year and a half into being a project manager, because I was an APM on a bunch of projects.

Speaker 2:

But the CEO of the company kind of took notice of how much more I was doing and it wasn't that I was stepping out of my lane or stepping on toes, it was just being very proactive, and he knew that I was hungry.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I've always been hungry, I still am, but, um, he saw that and he wanted to reward that and so, you know, he gave me the bump up to PM and there I was, you know, at 25 years old, sitting with the PMs, and you know it was, it was. That was a big leap for me, going from size five shoes to size 10 shoes, yeah, but I'm really happy that I did because it kind of set the tone for the rest of my career. And so I worked with that contractor for a bit. And then I worked with another contractor for a bit, ended up being about eight, almost nine years in construction. And then I built a project in Tribe, tribeca. That was a coffee shop for a company called joe and the juice, yep, um, yeah, so you're familiar I saw on your websites but I'm not familiar, but uh I did see the design.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that's very cool, gotcha yeah, it's a great company to work with. Uh. So I wrapped that up and um, I guess you know the, the top brass, that joe and the juice, kind of took notice and I started having conversations with their us team about coming on board with them in house to manage GCs and manage, you know like work with work with their team doing the expansion across the U? S. And so I came in and I was like you know, I wasn't really looking for a new role, but you know I've always felt like eventually I did want to move into doing the top line project management, the you know, the full scale development from end to end, including, you know, site selection, all the way up to turnover, not just the construction aspect of it. So I felt like it was just the right. It was the right move for me and I still do. And so I worked with them for, uh, just over two years and when I came on we had, I think we had like five or six stores and by the time I was done, I think we had like 45. So that's a lot. It was, it was, it was big, it was, it was, it was a big push. Um, I think at one point we were opening like two or three stores a month, which was intense, of course, but it was great.

Speaker 2:

I learned how to work in multiple states, learned how to work remotely, managing projects, because I was based in New York. I had some personnel that doubled up as kind of regional managers in the markets, but, uh, you know, for the most part it was, you know, it was me coordinating with the GCs and the different markets and making sure that I got proper weekly reports and a lot of techniques that I developed, uh, during that time I still use today because Meerkat works nationally. Um, yeah, so then I worked with them for about you know a little over two years and then COVID hit and um from there. Uh, you know they, they made an offer to me and it's very generous offer to stay on and kind of do facilities management because they were slowing down on expansion. But that's not really where my heart was. I wanted to keep, I wanted to do new development and growth, um, so I teamed up with a company called Selena, which is a hotel and hostel company that's based out of Panama, and I was brought on as the VP of development for them and unfortunately, I was only with them for about a year.

Speaker 2:

When I came on, we had a pretty strong pipeline for the US, but as they started to see that it was very capital intensive to grow in the US and deals that I was bringing to them just seemed astronomically higher than you know. Building a 20 key hotel in Panama, yeah, um. And, and you know, nicaragua and Costa Rica, um, and. So you know, I'd stayed with them for about a year and we, we, you know we we tried to figure out a way to make it work and you know they, they made very generous offers to move me to other markets and such, and I really appreciate that, but I wanted to stay in New York. We have the best pizza.

Speaker 1:

I was going to say the same thing. Why would you want to leave?

Speaker 2:

Nothing against all the other markets that they're in. I think I just wasn't ready to go. Nice, well, that sounds cool. Ready to go so?

Speaker 1:

nice, well, that's yeah, and so so what did you? So? From that did you? The leap to entrepreneurialism is is sometimes a uh, a leap of faith. So how did you uh? When did that? What year were you like, okay, I gotta do this yeah.

Speaker 2:

So my uh, I would say the last W2 role that I had was the one right after Selena and it was called Lifehouse Hotels. I came on as their VP of development and I worked with them for three years. You know, I managed the development team, the procurement team, and then I also worked in tandem with the VP of design. We were vertically integrated, which was great. And in doing so, you know, that last role that I had, I've always kind of felt entrepreneurial.

Speaker 2:

But that last role that I had was very entrepreneurial in the sense that we kind of ran our own books. We did a lot of our own client outreach, we did a lot of our own. It was very much like a like an insular kind of subcompany within that, within that firm. And you know, in just in, in building six hotels in three years, six branded hotels, um, I just realized that I had a real knack for kind of running the whole show. Um, and uh, yeah, at the end of last year, at the end of 2023, I decided to, uh, to leave lifehouse, um, without really knowing, excuse, excuse me, jeez, sneeze.

Speaker 1:

Damn it. Sorry about that. Live live, live sneeze. Okay, Sorry.

Speaker 2:

That attacked you. It did, yeah. So at the end of last year I decided to leave and I just wasn't sure what was coming next, which was fine. I needed to. You know, the metaphor that I use is it's kind of hard to figure out which boat to get on if the boat that you're on is still moving. So I hopped onto what I call the island, the Zack Island, and figured out what came next, and I interviewed with a few companies and then I just decided.

Speaker 2:

You know what I feel like I have the experience and this is ultimately what I want to do, and something that my dad always said was the time's going to pass either way. So what do you want to do? And something that my dad always said was the time's going to pass either way. So what do you want to have happen? And you know he was. He was saying that in relation to you know, uh, you know, in five years, like, like, when I was thinking about if something was going to take a long time and it's a reason not to do it, um, he would be like listen, five years are going to pass either way. So in five years, do you want to be the owner of a company or do you want to just be starting your company? At that point, and so I, you know, with with his voice, you know, in the back of my head, I was like it's time, let's do this.

Speaker 2:

So in February of this year, I incorporated um. March, I publicly announced, after doing some branding with the studio that I hired. And uh, since then it's it's been a wild ride. We're working on three active projects, two of them in New Jersey, one of them in Cincinnati, ohio. I have a bunch more in the pipeline coming up for 2025. And I'm also consulting with a few groups that are in that early exploratory phase of does it make sense to acquire this property, does it make sense to build it, what does it look like when it's done? What do the financial returns look like? So it's been exciting. It's been a lot of fun actually that's pretty cool.

Speaker 1:

When you first decided to actually start the company, was there a project with a prospective client that you're like, okay, this could be my first one?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, actually I was, um, when I, when I first left, I was in talks with my, uh, with my former employer life house, to kind of come on and do my role on a contract basis. Okay, good.

Speaker 1:

So you just wrapped the whole company around that and then nice.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it turns out that you know the the projects that they were working on kind of fell to the wayside for you know, regardless of reason. But, um, I would say that you know, there wasn't like a locked and loaded project, I just decided that it was time to do it and um, a lot of courage since I started.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thank you, I appreciate that. Um, since I started, I I made a bunch of goals for myself, of you know, setting up call meetings and sending out 50 LinkedIn connection requests and sending out 25 cold emails or whatever, and just going to more networking events and doing all of that. It's been great. I've met a lot of really cool people, not just cause. That's not really what I'm focused on. I'm more focused on building my personal brand, building the company brand and kind of becoming a known, known figure in the space. Um, cause, I wasn't unknown, but I think that I'm now. I'm now getting to a point where you know uh, people are starting to to know who I am before I introduced myself, which is, which is the intended effect.

Speaker 1:

Nice, that's pretty cool. You know, I had a similar kind of experience with before I had SightMax. Um, when I was in my my uh, mid twenties, um, I worked for a company called Lush Cosmetics like the soap brand and, um, we were doing the same thing. We're opening stores in other locations and, uh, we would have, you know, the fit out of the store. We had the design, we had an in-house wood shop and we used to backfill an entire container like a moving truck, basically like a big one, and it would pull up to the warehouse and we would basically put all the product in first, then we would put the furniture in next, Then we would do lights, so we basically had this all filled to like paint at the front. So, basically, this thing would pull up and it would be a essentially an assembly line of start to finish of what the store was going to have in it. And we just did that over and over and over again Signage, everything was in there. Yeah, it was pretty cool.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the store in the box system.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it really was all the way to the product and it was pretty crazy and we'd have like a two week timeline and get it nailed. Yeah, it'd be fast, super fast.

Speaker 2:

Because there wasn't a lot to them right.

Speaker 1:

There was, just like you know, it was mostly paint, furniture and lighting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I would love to dive into that with you and just talk about, like you know, all the logistics. You know we could do that offline if it's. You know, not for now.

Speaker 1:

But it was a cool thing to be part of at the time and something to watch. So you go to this marketing company and so did you have the name Meerkat at the time when you decided you wanted to go and do this.

Speaker 2:

No, and I'm smiling because I'm sure they're going to listen to this but day one when I hired them, I was filling out a questionnaire and I was like, all right, I have one rule no animal names. And uh, it's like, and I like being one over. It's just a character trait for me, like even I'm not very like like hard and fast about most things, like I'm always able to hear people out, and I think that's a strength. Um, but uh, out, and I think that's a strength. Um, but uh, I said no animal names because I'm thinking to myself like I don't want, like you know, like I think of like construction brands, like caterpillar and like you know, like it just feels very like done already I guess. Yeah, um, and I didn't want something that was like kind of corny or like like wolf development or something like that. Yeah, um, lone wolf, no offense to wolf, wolf development, if that exists. No, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Um love wolf. No offense to wolf, wolf development, if that exists no offense to that, there's lots of those.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm sure, and that's another thing. Is that, like I feel like it's been done? Um, and so they came to me and they were like so we know, you said no animal names, but what do you think of meerkat? What do you think of meerkat? And I was like at first I was like no, but then they, they started to explain it and meerkats, like you know, like a core trait, a core character trait is that they work as a team, they with typically one scout or you know one one that kind of leads the way. They're very good at resource management, they always know where their food is, they always know where their water is and they're typically fairly docile, unless you provoke them or, and then they tend to get assertive and, and you know, aggressive on behalf of the tribe and on behalf of the pack. And when they explained that to me I was like that sounds like a pretty good project manager. So it all just kind of dovetailed into me realizing that there are a lot of natural, instinctual characteristics about Amircat, that kind of double up into a really circumspect and careful project manager.

Speaker 2:

Owner's rep. There you go, and that it was unique. The SEO was there, I felt like there was a lot that would get that could be done by with marketing. So, um, we landed on it and I sat on it for a few days and I was like this is it.

Speaker 1:

Let's do it Cool. One thing I noticed about meerkats they were a lot smaller than I thought they really were.

Speaker 2:

They're tiny, they're tiny.

Speaker 1:

They're not that big. They're like the size of gophers.

Speaker 2:

No, they are. They are tiny and you know what's funny is that since I've started it, you know people send me videos of, like you know, meerkats in costumes and you know like meerkats as pets or whatever, and I'm just like, I'm thinking to myself, I'm like maybe one day I probably should adopt a meerkat.

Speaker 1:

I probably should adopt a meerkat.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, let's see if you can get one through the ports of Brooklyn. There, I'm not to be clear, I'm not going to adopt a meerkat.

Speaker 1:

Actually that'd be a pretty cool mascot to have that real live meerkat hauling around it would. It would be cool. You'd get a Cybertruck stick a little like a pair of razor glasses on it and stick it in there?

Speaker 1:

you go, yeah, that'd be awesome, okay. Sticking there, you go, yeah, that'd be awesome, okay. So let's, let's get into some construction stuff. So, um, the entire stack of your services. So let's say you've got a, um, you know, quick service restaurant, um, that wants they, do they approach you with? I mean, a lot of these.

Speaker 1:

It all depends, obviously, you know how developed these companies are in terms of their track record. So, obviously, having a design and all of that, typically they they already have an idea of what they want. They just are looking for a development location that's going to fit budget wise and obviously format wise, like size, et cetera, for them to be able to. I don't know if you know, obviously, some stuff quick service you're dealing with seats to some degree, but it's more like get in and get out, but other things there is how many seats are there if it's a restaurant, et cetera. So, um, at what stage do they call you? Let me ask you another question so have you had, have you had, companies that are a totally new concept and then you have others that have, you know, previous stores and this is just like a rinse and repeat on a new location great question.

Speaker 2:

So I like to work with both, uh, both types, um and this goes for restaurants and hotels as well Um, it's just generally like a client type for me. Um, for the, for the ones that already have what I call proof of concept and you know, they have maybe like brand standards. They might not be like a hard and fast, like PDF, like that they can give me, but they kind of have an idea of what they want to do. Like that typically really helps with initial budgeting, especially because they can say, oh yeah, our store in XYZ town costs this much and it was this square footage. And then I just kind of I adjust for, you know, cost of construction and cost of rent and such, and then I can actually run a pretty tight budget for them.

Speaker 1:

Right, so you can put a model together for them of what that particular place would be like. Correct, okay, and then in terms of, in terms of you know drawings, you know architecture basically not architecture, but like you know the yeah, the architect's drawings like so are you involved?

Speaker 2:

before those are made, yeah, so typically I mean, I get brought in Well if you bring a project, obviously.

Speaker 2:

Um, yeah, for sure, I would say that ideally, um, ideally, I'm working with a client that has, you know, a proof of concept, whether it's one, two or three, you know locations already, yeah, um, and then, uh, they typically will come to the table with you know kind of like schematics already, whether they have an architect already or they are reusing existing schematics from a past project. And then what I do on my end is I just ask them hey, do you have a contractor lined up? Do you have an architect lined up? Do you have an engineer? Do you have an interior designer? Do you have a furniture procurement agent? Because a core aspect of my services is team assemblage. So, whatever they don't have, I'll be able to.

Speaker 2:

And because of my experience with Joe and the Juice and past roles, I have a ton of contacts all over the country and many markets, and so if I have a client that's New York based and they want to expand it to Philly, I got somebody for that.

Speaker 2:

So I can usually contact and, you know, because I have good relationships with, you know everyone, I typically I try to leave everything with with a really good relationship Um, and then I'm able to, you know, call somebody in Philly and just say like hey, can you swing by this spot, size it up? You know, tell me where the existing gas line is and waterline. It's typically a GC that I've worked with Um, and they'll be able to give me a pretty good it's not, you know, you know licensed and stamped property condition report, but it gives me enough of an assessment to get back to the client and say, hey, this is pretty accurate within 15%. So and that's super helpful for them when they're devising their their expansion strategy, because they have to understand how much capital they're going to have to allocate per store on a, on a national rollout. So it's it's worth its weight in gold to get going on that early.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So, um, you know, before the, before the, before we started recording, we were talking about, you know you're, um, you're that communication conduit between the owner and then the gc, in terms of you know, um, like, if the problems with a particular submittal um, and then you know all the rfis coming down the pipe, um, you know which could obviously turn into a change order, obviously. So what is the GCs that you work with? Typically they do that and so, having most general contractors I know of anyway, they're getting the certain draws from the client and they're dealing with all the project management. They're doing the submittal process, first putting stuff out to tender and then et, etc. All the way through. And, um, you know they're managing the money and if the money becomes a problem, then they're talking to the, to the owner. But in your case, if you're have you had any gcs are like, do they like the fact that you contractors and just generally I would say, stakeholders?

Speaker 2:

like working with someone like Meerkat and just generally an owner's rep, if they're good. They like working with owner's reps because the owner's rep can speak everyone's language, they understand what the contractor needs and they're a bit more anticipatory. I guess they understand what the contractor needs and they're a bit more anticipatory, I guess. And then also the client likes it because they're focused on client stuff, on owner stuff. They're raising money, they're looking at new deals, they're doing investor relations, they're operating their other properties.

Speaker 2:

You know they don't necessarily have the time to, you know, respond to an RFI and to feel the submittal and do a final sign off. So I get put into that seat as a third party that's contracted by the owner. So you know I would say that it goes owner to me, to all the other stakeholders below, and then all the other stakeholders communicate with me and then if I need to roll anything up to ownership that requires a sign off, then I will. But otherwise I'm I'm keeping the ship sailing smooth with a high velocity of response and just making sure that coordination and collaboration is happening as quickly as possible to keep the projects on budget and on schedule.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So in terms of the cost, your services are going to obviously create another budget item that the GC typically would be charging for for their project management side of things. Do they still charge that and you're gravy on top? How does that work?

Speaker 2:

It really it's project dependent. In my experience actually, I feel like when I speak with clients you know clients that I have right now, current clients um, they, they will typically have the gc exclude this kind of over and above project management, like outside of the construction project management, and then they'll typically have somebody internal to their team historically run it. But but that person either isn't as adept or as experienced in doing this kind of work or they're just too busy. They might have experience but they're also doing other things and they're wearing multiple hats.

Speaker 1:

Okay, that makes sense. You're basically replacing, on the client side, that person that would have been responsible for the project. They can focus on their business, and that revolving door person that's moving from one company to the next. You're this solid thing that can just be there for them.

Speaker 2:

Bingo, and I think that when I speak with clients and sometimes I get the question of we've opened four of these already, why would we need someone like you? And my response is always did it go over budget? Was it past schedule? Were you handling it?

Speaker 2:

Company owner whose time is worth 500 plus an hour.

Speaker 2:

It doesn't really necessarily make sense for them to be focusing so much time on something that's a temporary concentration and for a lot of my clients they don't have the velocity or the requirement to have someone like me full-time.

Speaker 2:

So the benefit is that whatever fee I propose to the client can actually get billed towards the project instead of hitting their bottom line. So if they're going for another fundraising round, it doesn't look like they have more costs on the books because it's all project related. And then the last part of it too is that I'm still working out some case studies and some metrics, but it's more or less guaranteed that having someone like me on the team actually ends up being a net savings to the owner, even with my fee included, because I'm able to get them open sooner, in revenue faster, and then I'm also able to vet, change orders and just make sure that design is running in the right way and doing value engineering on things that maybe aren't necessary to the overall product and brand standard. So there's a lot of benefits to having that kind of expert oversight. That, um, that it is an investment, you know, bringing me on the team that they may not want to pay, but they end up saving a lot of money over the term of the project.

Speaker 1:

Do you think that um has there been a change from from your vantage point of uh project consciousness that result in more change orders these days that are just so ridiculous? How do people not see this? Is that becoming an epidemic?

Speaker 2:

I think that I saw this when I was with Joe and the Juice and even when I was a general contractor. It's not that we wanted provide change orders or receive change orders, but I think the issue is that everyone is just trying to move at hyper speed. Yeah, and a lot of times it's not necessarily mistakes, but it's just lack of communication. So, um, you know, if, if the branding team for a client wants to make sure that all of the wood base or that all of the base in the store or the hotel is a cherry, and they come in and they see it at the end and they say this is walnut and that's a change order because it's something that's a brand standard, when that could have just been included in the plans. But everyone's just moving so fast that it's kind of difficult to do that, and so that's why I always institute checkpoints at every single deliverable or every single part of the design phase to make sure that everyone has a chance to review it. Next week, for example, we're wrapping up our design documentation for a project out in Cincinnati and I have a 90-minute block on the calendar for me and my client and my client's full team to do a page-by-page page turn to make sure we all sign off, to make sure that all of the finishers are correct, to make sure that all of the MEP is what they want as the end user and in doing so we're able to fully sign off on construction documents. It's exactly what we want.

Speaker 2:

The GC that we brought in for pre-con can do a full, comprehensive, rough order magnitude budget with specificity at that point and then when we move into signing up to GMP, we know that we have everything covered. You know the operator has signed off, design has signed off, it's within budget. The GC is happy. We feasibly should not really be seeing many change orders, barring any major field conditions. But that's how I try to fight back on. That is just with procedural checkpoints and taking time that I think a lot of people don't feel is necessary to take time to review things and then they just say we'll fix it later. But to me, fixing it later means more money.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, how much are you seeing the percentage split of RFIs that are? Hey, I just need to see this and verify, because we're unsure versus we've identified a problem identified a problem.

Speaker 2:

I see what you mean, so so the the difference between you know we're missing, we're entirely missing a detail on this thing versus hey, there's a detail here.

Speaker 1:

We're just verifying that you want a radial corner instead of a 90 or or they're getting to a certain area and they're going um, what we have here won't work right here, like I'm looking at this going, there's just, you know, there's like six inches missing and you want x amount of you and there could be, especially in the. You're dealing with equipment. It could be a fridge, it could be a, whatever you know. You're dealing with a fridge that can't be shaved down. It. You can't do that because it has its own footprint. Um, right, so yeah, I mean, how often are you dealing with that? Like, what's the percentage split? And obviously you want to make that split on the just checking rather than the oh shit kind of stuff.

Speaker 2:

And I would say and this is not a self-promote here, but I would say that on projects that I come in a little bit later on, there's typically a lot more like hey, where is this drawing? We're missing this entire section and where is this thing. So I would say that the split is much higher in that direction. If I have my hands on a project from the start, because I've touched it on construction or because I have experience on construction and I have experience in development, I've seen I'm not going to say I've seen it all, seen most of it and uh, you know, I look for the things that are probably going to trip us up. The fridge being too high is a big one for me, and so that's why I typically kick the um.

Speaker 2:

You know, if I'm building a kitchen from doing, doing multifamily or a project in Cincinnati is a great kind of like short-term rental, hotel synthesis concept I'll typically kick out anything that requires any kind of like field coordination or any kind of hard dimensions. I want to keep that in one camp. So GC on that project is going to be doing the millwork. They're also going to be doing the appliances, so GC on that project is going to be doing the millwork, they're also going to be doing the appliances, so it's on the GC's PM and their APM to verify that the shop drawings fit within the appliances that have been specified by the designer.

Speaker 1:

Nice, that's cool, Things like that. So in terms of what kind of things do you see changing in this industry? What is evolving in your process? Do you see things? You're like holy smokes? I see some changes here, Things from the old days. You'd see lots of plans rolled out and everyone's got them on their phone or on an iPad, or technology is changing. Do you think that's making people less conscious? More conscious?

Speaker 2:

Good question. I think that technology is a great thing if it's used correctly. I think that there's a ton of, I would say, new age or changeover from people that have been doing this for a long time. I'll tell you a quick story, but when I was a GC, I was a PM late 20s and I was working with a superintendent who was late 60s and a lot of times we didn't always communicate because I would say, hey, have you looked at the plans that are uploaded to whatever PM tool that we were using? And he was just like, no man, I barely even have a phone, it's a flip phone. If you want me to see the plans, you've got to bring it to the site world.

Speaker 2:

Because he was super, super careful and super, super detail oriented, because he had everything right in front and he had a system and he had, you know, his pen and his and his rule. He had a, you know, the three side ruler. He was scaling things out. Um, it's a bit of a lost art now and you know I love seeing it. Um, I still, I still take paper plans on on site visits, um, but I would say that we're in this kind of interesting period where, you know people like that are retiring and so you know those kinds of processes are kind of going to the wayside and I think that as a new generation of construction and development and design professionals kind of enter into the scene, I think we're going to see a big paradigm shift into pretty much everything being on the cloud and everything being done electronically, but people actually sticking with it and tools evolving with the new needs of high velocity.

Speaker 1:

Very interesting thing, especially on the drawing side, when you know many podcasts you know we'll talk to on operators of you know engineering companies that are building airports, hospitals, all that kind of stuff and they're all like you know it's all been modeling and uh, you know 3d drawings, um, and you know I look at for that to become standard across the board in terms of the industries you get involved in, uh, when it comes to tenant improvements, uh, retrofits comes to tenant improvements, retrofits, resto mods, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. Because of the original drawings that the cities have that you need to get and then you need to get your building permit. You need to provide back changes based on those original drawings. Well, in order for everything for the whole world to go BIM you're going to, the cities have to change.

Speaker 1:

And there's no just, in my opinion, there is no planet where the cities are going to pay, or software-wise, for the intersection between vector drawing files. You'll get pds from the city that are flat raster files, aren't even vectors, right. So, and I'm sure you know, we can talk, talk about some kind of um. You know ai service. That's like okay, upload your drawings and it'll give you its best render of a 3D model for that, great. But I don't see that happening anytime soon with accuracy to the point where it could be sign-off. So we're going to be, I think, stuck in this 2D world for a while until there is some kind of watershed moment. That you know, it's kind of weird and that's what I find is like that's going to hold back construction, in my opinion, from the plan side, for a while.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think you're right about that. I think that more on a, I guess, a rollout or a gradual change basis, I think we'll start seeing that in larger metropolitan areas. I could see New York doing that. I know that they're updating all of their building information systems online and I'm sure we'll be able to eventually see as-builts and they'll be password protected by an admin or something like that. I can almost promise you that that's probably happening already and that's being thought of by building commissioners.

Speaker 2:

New York, miami, la, chicago, those larger cities I think that it's going to be the smaller towns that you know have, have, you know, plans on microfilm from the thirties that are just never going to get there. And that's okay, you know, it's not. It's not necessary at at, at the velocity that they work at Um. But I mean, you know I did a hotel on Nantucket at. But I mean, you know I did a hotel on Nantucket.

Speaker 2:

It was it was an interior renovation of an existing B&B into a hotel called the Blue Iris, and we got as belts from the city or from the town, really, of Nantucket, and they were just for reference only because every single dimension was off. You know, we, we scaled it and it was. You know, it was done a long time ago and so we actually just used them for reference and we brought in our own building information modeling team to size everything up as existing and then we had our own 3D model, but it didn't come from the city, from the town, to your point. But I think that there's going to be a lot more. I could see a world where larger cities are contracting these building information modeling surveyors to update their plans over time. It's not a major priority, but I think as people renovate and as people develop, I think that they'll want to have them on record as BIM, as Revit.

Speaker 1:

So I can see that happening for sure. Yeah, I don't see that lowering the square footage of homes.

Speaker 2:

No, I don't In terms of pricing.

Speaker 1:

I mean, where do you see this whole thing going in terms of you see construction costs is increasing and labor costs increasing, and then you hear rents are so expensive on the commercial side you know residential construction costs are so much, you know home prices are so much. I mean it doesn't seem like it's ever going to go down.

Speaker 2:

It seems like it's ever squeezing. But I think that that's a big reason why I'm glad you brought that up. That's actually a big reason why I'm focusing Meerkat's targets on not out-of-ground development, but I want to go after the existing buildings and I especially want to focus on and kind of niche down on, something called adaptive reuse, which is taking an older building and changing the whole purpose of it. I've done a lot of adaptive reuse in my career and I love it. I've done a lot of adaptive reuse in my career and I love it. The building out, or the project down in Cincinnati it was a building that was built in 1916 as a carpet factory and we're turning it into a higher end 44 key boutique hotel with two restaurants.

Speaker 2:

Sweet. That's cool, you know going to be cool. And what I'm seeing is that, you know, the concrete and steel line item is significantly lower, by a major margin, than if we were to knock it down and rebuild it. We can't rebuild it anyway because it's on the National Historic Registry.

Speaker 2:

But if it were not, I think we would still proceed with this path, because concrete and steel are such a huge cost center and I think, just generally from a responsibility standpoint, I think developers and contractors should be looking at reusing existing spaces versus building new, from an ecological standpoint as well. It just releases so much carbon to create new cold form steel to pour new concrete. It's a huge emitter. So I think if we can shift away from that and reuse existing spaces and add on to existing spaces, be smarter about our use and more efficient, I think that everyone will be saving money. We'll be able to create more housing, you know, more services, more amenities, and not save the planet. I think that that's. I think that that's a big term, but I think we'll be able to save on save on carbon emissions that we wouldn't otherwise have to do.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, it's pretty cool. I've seen a lot of really really well-designed Save on carbon emissions that we wouldn't otherwise have to do.

Speaker 2:

Love that, look you know, with black, black hardware.

Speaker 1:

It looks so good. You know great lighting and you know I think there's the. And then, if you can, you know use a lot of the materials from ripping out and you know reclaim wood and using all that stuff and you know, take that to a mill workshop. Get that done in cool ways. Yeah, yeah, that's a. It creates a lot of. It's almost as though aren't, joe Rogan says. He says there's memory in spaces. No, I could kind of see that. Yeah, there's, this is a feeling, there's this kind of like you walk into a place like okay, like a lot of shit's happened here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I actually did a video on on on my Instagram with my buddy, brent, where we walked around the city, and there's these two hotels that I really love. One of them is called the Beekman Hotel and one of them is called the Refinery Hotel, and they're both great examples of adaptive reuse. The Beekman used to be what's called the Temple Court building, and it was built for a totally different purpose. It was high society back then and developers converted that into a high-end hotel and they left this really incredible atrium that they used as kind of like a light well to bring light into the center of the building. Oh cool, so well worth checking out. They don't serve pizza, unfortunately, but worth checking out the next time you're in town. And then the refinery is also a great example of a rooftop bar and you can see the Empire estate building, but that used to be a hat factory.

Speaker 1:

So I definitely got to, uh, when I come back to New York, I've definitely got to, you know, um, meet up with you and you can show me, like the the local thing is so important, like I can't stand the tourist thing. Like you, you go there and you know, like someone like yourself who's got this, this breadth of knowledge of where to go, what is your? You know, if I were to, what would the pizza place be? That you'd be like james, we have to go here. That you know that I'm gonna walk away going.

Speaker 2:

Oh my god, that was epic oh man, I should have seen this coming right, you should have we've said pizza a number of times in the past hour.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to give you three, because I think that that's only fair, sure. So there is Joe's Pizza. Joe's Pizza has a couple locations. I like the one in the West Village, right off West 4th Street. It's always good, always swing by whenever I'm, even if I'm not hungry. If I'm in the neighborhood I'll go by for a slice. And then Scar's Pizza is a bit more of a newcomer, but it's fantastic, always a line around the block and I actually I would love to work with them on helping them expand. So they're on my list to reach out to Nice.

Speaker 2:

And then, last would be a place called DeFaras, um. And then, uh, last would be a place called DeFaras and that is in South Brooklyn, um, well known for being, you know, one of the best places in the country. It's not the world, um, super old school, no frills. You walk in there and you know you order a whole pie, sit down with your friends. It's, uh, it's, it's an old school neighborhood, it hasn't, you know, it's still, I wouldn't say, gritty, but it's still very like old world Brooklyn. So well worth checking out next time you're in town.

Speaker 1:

Nice, that's perfect. Three I get three options. Well, you're going to have to sit down with me and have some down there. When I come over there, you go, all right. So, that seems like a good place for us to wrap up here. So your website, meerkat? What dot com is it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's meerkatdevelopmentcom Perfect.

Speaker 1:

Okay, that's what. I got here. Yeah, meerkatdevelopmentcom. And then Zach Wrapaport. You can be found on LinkedIn, yep and yeah, so for anybody to reach out, um, I definitely think we're going to tag those pizza companies. Oh yeah, please do.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I would love to chat with them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's cool. Okay, well, this has been awesome, zach, um, I wish you the best of luck and, uh, I don't think you're going to need it, but, uh, anyway, hats off to you for, uh, the courage of going into entrepreneurialism. It's a rough world out there, but you're doing it. You're doing a great job. It's awesome.

Speaker 2:

I've been having a good time so far and I think it's all about just having a good attitude about it and, you know, getting through it, having a good time.

Speaker 1:

All right.

Speaker 2:

All the best to you, bud. Thanks, james, ciao.

Speaker 1:

Well, that does it for another episode of the Site Visit. Thank you for listening. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube. You can also sign up for our monthly newsletter at sitemaxsystemscom slash the site visit, where you'll get industry insights, pro tips and everything you need to know about the site visit podcast and sitemax, the job site and construction management tool of choice for thousands of contractors in North America and beyond. Sitemax is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building.