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ICBA Generals 2024 E5 | LIVE IN THE CROWD | Addressing the Housing Crisis through Construction Innovation with Atilla Réshad, Head of Construction Divison at Cape Group

• James Faulkner

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What if the key to solving the housing crisis lies within the construction industry itself? Meet Atilla Réshad, Head of Construction Divison at Cape Group, as he takes us through his impressive 20-year construction career journey. Atilla's transition from an estimator to a leading director offers a unique perspective on the evolving landscape of construction practices. Discover how proactive strategies and collaborative pre-construction meetings involving superintendents, project managers, and estimators ensure comprehensive project scopes and successful outcomes.

In this episode, Atilla also sheds light on the pressing issues plaguing the construction industry, including new regulations that stretch project timelines and inflate costs. He explores the necessity of balancing safety standards with streamlined permit processes to effectively address the housing crisis. Additionally, we tackle cultural barriers that discourage the younger generation from entering the construction field and discuss how showcasing success stories and rapid career advancement can attract new talent. 

Tune in for an enlightening conversation that goes beyond blueprints and hard hats to the heart of an industry in transition.

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Speaker 1:

Tila hello. How are you, Hi James? How are you doing? Good thanks for having me.

Speaker 2:

You're welcome. What do you think of this event? Oh, I would say it's a drastic change since last year. I see more people, more companies and, you know, good for ICBA. Thanks for them and for everybody who attended. I'm enjoying it and we are happy that we are presenting our company.

Speaker 1:

Oh, so you have a presentation just down here somewhere.

Speaker 2:

That's right in the corner.

Speaker 1:

That's cool. So you're seeing a bunch of trades that you didn't know before. Perhaps coming and seeing you guys, maybe you can get to work with. That's right.

Speaker 2:

Some of them are new. Well, because also there are some new companies, well because, also there are some new companies. It's a very good event to interact with new and also existing trades who are interested in working with us.

Speaker 1:

That's cool, that's cool. So currently you are director of construction for Cape Construction. That's right, is it Cape Group?

Speaker 2:

So Cape Construction is a division of Cape Group. Okay, so I am the head of construction division for Cape Group. Okay, cool.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Site. Visit Podcast Leadership and perspective from construction with your host, james Faulkner. Live off the show floor at icbas. Meet the generals 2024 and uh. So what is your? What is your? It's the interesting part about you is is that you've come through this, uh, success story of going from being an estimator all the way to where you are now. That's quite a big ascension. I mean, how many years did that take you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it took almost, I would say two decades. 20 years, yeah, 20 years, if you're exact. Yeah, slightly less than 20 years, yeah. So I was a consultant for a multidisciplinary firm, engineering and architecture. I worked there for almost six years and then worked on SROs and you know different types of what I've been doing now in the last 15 years, but that also gave me the opportunity to understand the Vancouver market from the consultant's point of view, until I joined as an estimator.

Speaker 1:

What company were you at originally? The first company.

Speaker 2:

The first company was called McGinn Engineering, mcginn Architect, I believe. I'm not sure if they're around, but we worked on many BC housing SROs in downtown Eastside and then, yeah, I joined as an estimator at ITC construction group Ah, ITC, yeah, down on Beatty Street. Down on Beatty Street. Back then they were in Yelton, basically a Pacific Boulevard, oh yeah okay, yes, oh, yeah, I remember that their original office.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah, I have very good memories, fond memories, fond memories Nice, you know from all the people who are around and who basically not around us. You know, I basically learned a lot from them, especially at ITC. I'm glad they have a booth here so I said hi to my ex-colleagues and yeah. So I think your question is from estimating to director of construction.

Speaker 1:

How did it happen? No, it's just. You know, what have you learned over this time? Most importantly, what I want to chat with you today about is how do you think, in this 20-year span, how have you seen construction change? What are the major things that sort of either A keep you up at night or B make you go. Wow, what an amazing opportunity. This is now Right.

Speaker 2:

So back in those days when I was an estimator, you know, as an estimating department, we would run the budget and estimate and then the project team, basically the project managers and superintendents, would build the project. What I found, what I learned during those days, that typically the handover from the estimating department to the project supervision and construction it was a bit of Disconnect. Disconnect, you know it well, probably where there were lots of gaps and holes and probably because of the experience of the estimators who were working on the projects, they were not thinking about those gaps and holes and then basically you wouldn't have the luxury of having a project manager or superintendent in the pre-construction stage at that time. So basically those gaps and holes were created when we were handing off the project from estimating to the project management. Right.

Speaker 1:

And then it's even worse then from PMs, then to the site supers. That's right they get those site instructions. They're like what the hell is this?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, most of the time the PMs were kind of questioning oh what I'm going to do on this scope of work? Where is this item in the scope of work? They had difficulties in basically finding the background of what happened and where they can find basically the resources, for example, to fill out that script of work. But I found that I can basically volunteer myself to be a link between all these different departments and I think at the beginning it was challenging because people were saying what are you doing? Do you even know what you're doing? I said no, I don't know, but I'm getting the input from everybody. You know, I also had a chance to be more on site, you know, learn about the operational side of the projects. So, but what I basically tried to achieve and I achieved was getting the input from the superintendents. So I was grabbing superintendents, I was grabbing CSOs, I was grabbing project managers, estimators and everybody to sit down and discuss about the project during the pre-construction stage and help with the contractual items, help with making sure all of the items in the scope of work are covered and get the input from superintendents on the project. So making sure the handover from the estimating to the project management is smooth. That made me a link between all these departments eventually To fast forward to, you know, maybe last six, seven years, I believe, the developers and development for the companies that I worked with.

Speaker 2:

They usually had development division after ITC, of course, and they realized the value. So, after becoming a link between the different construction divisions departments, I became the link between the construction and development I see. So you know, and then I think since then I've tried to basically be a client advocate and understand the development point of view as well so we can provide better services in the construction side to the developers and the other management and, versus what it was back then was more of a very dry design bid and build type of very conventional model and now it's more collaborative. You know, construction people, construction professionals, sit down with the development managers to discuss about the project from early on and that's the value that they can see in the project from early on and that's the value that they can see in the project.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so do you like? What are the major things you think like? Perhaps the? So as the director of construction, you're obviously seeing relationships with trades. I mean an event like this how are you seeing the relationships between the two parties, from the contractor to, or the prime contractor to, the trades? Are you seeing that relationship have been? Has that evolved over time? The dynamic, has that changed in your in this 20 years, or is it still the same as it always has been?

Speaker 2:

Well, I think it has changed a lot, at least in the last 15 years, because the industry has changed. And it comes to the same notion that I mentioned about how the traditional conventional design build approach has changed to more collaborative approach. And so what I've been trying to do and what we are trying to do at CAPE trying to engage the trades very early on, discuss about the projects, even if you don't have any drawings or specifications to share with them. We talk about the projects. We get them more engaged, more attracted to the projects, so they know something coming in our pipeline, something that suits them, and they can provide services.

Speaker 1:

So how do you manage that? I mean, how do you? Everyone's really busy, yeah, and if there's like, yeah, we're, we're going to be sending out, you know, the Pins or packages, yeah, Like it's, it's whether or not, and they already know if they're going to get it or not. But is there, is there a propensity for those two who are more in the know to be able to have information earlier?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's a net benefit for them to take the call from you guys earlier than it is later, and the more chance they might get the job.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it's a mutual benefit. So, where we established the relationship early on with the projects, we tried to maintain that relationship during the whole pre-construction stage. So get their input and also show that we value their input. And when the tender actual tender comes, they know that they've done the majority of the work and they're very close to get the project. So we are basically formalizing that sort of exercises that we've done in the pre-construction stage. Like, let's say, we are talking about a, you know, mixed use project, concrete project, and then so they know that they looked at the different aspects of the project, they looked at the schedule, they looked at the different aspects of the project, they looked at the schedule, they looked at the quantities. So, and you know, we also provide input to them, like where they are with the parameters, where they are with the numbers, the schedule, they know timing a bit more.

Speaker 2:

So we try to be more engaged with the trays. We appreciate that everybody is busy and you know I call this to be more engaged with the trades. I appreciate that everybody's busy and you know I call this an industrial relation. So you know, if we build and maintain our relationship with the trades, I'm sure that everything will go smoothly from the beginning of the pre-construction stage until the occupants.

Speaker 1:

So what do you think about the culture of construction in general? Do you think that that is a? Do you think people work very diligently, very hard compared to? I mean, we hear these productivity numbers in the United States is way more productive than we are here. Do you think there's any improvements that can happen out there in the field? Do you see where everyone's sort of getting lost in time, obviously permitting, is a huge issue?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, I try to be positive about it, but in the last 10, 15 years we've had challenges. Be positive about it, but in the last 10-15 years we've had challenges, as you mentioned. Basically, we've got new regulations. I remember in 2017, the EC Energy Step Code was introduced. Prior to that, we had LEED certification and other green building certifications. You know, I understand these certifications are necessary for a safer and healthier construction size and also healthier buildings and safer buildings. Yeah, but you know, all these regulations are. You know, sometimes they delay the projects. They're kind of red tapes in front of the builders and the developers. So I think there should be a fine balance to make sure. Yeah, we are talking about the housing crisis, but I don't think we are acting as a crisis.

Speaker 1:

I agree with you. Here's the thing this is what I find crazy Is that we're trying to get affordable homes and yet the permit process is taking super long. That means people's carrying costs are longer. It all ends up on being less affordable because it costs too much to make the project in the first place. So we've got to call on the cities to make sure that they have you know they're to do simple things.

Speaker 1:

I mean it goes all the way down the line because you know you've got trades that might not be all working on a big, big project. They may be working on a small TI, right, and it's still taking up their manpower and if that thing's delayed and it's delaying your project, it might even be bigger. Yeah, all based on, like the city going oh yeah, sorry, you need a building permit just to move a wall Stuff like an interior wall. You might even hear yeah, I mean it's crazy. So I agree with you the red tape, tape, everything but safety, because safety obviously that's something that we can't really you can't really skimp on that. But everything else we gotta find.

Speaker 2:

I mean we gotta find some technological ways for this stuff to go fast through yeah, I mean uh, one other factor I think I can uh speak of uh is uh, look at all the municipalities that we have in the lower mainland. They all have their own bylaws, their own regulations. As to have a preventive we are only talking about the lower mainland, not BC, right? So as a consultant, as an architect, as a builder, as a developer, as a construction company, you always need to be on top of all these regulations for each municipality. I see, yeah, that makes sense. So I think if we can come up with a kind of a central universal bylaw that can be applied to at least regional, municipalities like lower mainland Trades of value can be different.

Speaker 2:

Lower mainland can be different. So that would help the builders, developers, consultants know what's coming to their projects early on and basically plan for it easier and you know the wait time on the permits and the regulation. That's a different issue, I mean. I I think it's everybody is talking about it and we all know the issues and I appreciate ICBA and Chris Gardner for advocating for the industry. But we need actions. We need actions from the government, from the different levels, from the federal, from the provincial, and all the municipalities to work together. Right now I don't see that sort of collaboration between all three different levels of the government. So I believe the more of these events will help basically advocate for the industry and teach the politicians and governments what the industry needs. We need to act as if there's a crisis. We don't do it. We've been talking about the labor shortage for at least 20 years, right?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but the labor shortage is a cultural thing. It is because it really is. So we've talked about this ad nauseum on the podcast, and it is mostly the fact that we have a huge generation that's retiring and it's big, that's right. All that knowledge is going out the window and then the younger generation is like they don't get it. They don't understand that this is a great opportunity. It's because the parents are virtuing so much. They're living vicariously through their children. In our generations. They didn't happen.

Speaker 1:

You know, you were born, you grew up and that was it, and your parents were like see you later and that's it. Now it's like, oh, what's Billy doing? Oh, billy's doing this now. Or Karen, she's doing this and she's doing that, and it's all about it's living vicariously through their's doing that. And oh, it's all about it's living vicariously through their children. So they, it's an extension of what their own identity is as parents, of what they want their kids to do, and and I'm talking about even parents that are in construction already successful fam construction families don't want their kids going into construction. Because we're all like that, though we're all like.

Speaker 1:

I remember my dad. He didn't want me to have any struggles like he had no. Go and do this, go and do that, go and do this, go and do that. You must do that. I'll help you do this, I'll help you do that, and that's because you always want your offspring to do better than you did. But that manifests itself in a very toxic way today. It manifests its way, in almost a virtuous way, of what will be considered status, and status is what you say you do for a job, what company you work for. It's all identity. So that's where we're getting lost is that the kids. The kids might actually think there's an opportunity in construction, but the parents won't let them do it. So we need to have martini parties for the parents you know, yeah, like it needs to be about.

Speaker 1:

I think that the brand of construction, the opportunity of career in construction, is very complicated because the parents or the guidance counselors or whoever, all they see is the lower strata, entry-level jobs that are out in the open. That's right level jobs that are out in the open.

Speaker 2:

That's right. It feels like it's a very dirty kind of environment. Basically, nobody wants to be on site under the rain, under the snow.

Speaker 1:

Exactly. But that's what people think construction is. They think it's masculine, they think it's dirty, they think all of this stuff. What they don't see is a PM in a Herman Miller chair with five screens. They don't see that PM in a Herman Miller chair with five screens. I don't see that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so what we can do, I think, to promote more and also have programs to promote in different areas, in different areas, like in the schools like I'm sure it's been done at BCIT, but we can do it in other schools as well to promote the construction industry as a rewarding industry, somewhere that the professionals the carpenters, the plumbers, the electricians can be proud of what they're doing and see that as a rewarding career and something that they can be proud of, something that they provide as a service and something that people will live inside those places or work in those places or basically have fun in those places. So we are creating all these spaces, all these homes, offices, industrial places, so that life can go on, I know.

Speaker 1:

I think where it gets lost with people is that the younger generation is trading a different currency, the currency of meaning of where you work and meaning of, oh, I built something. They don't care. They don't care. They're like what does it take? I want to be a TikToker. I want to be a YouTuber. I want to be a TikToker. I want to be a YouTuber. I want to be famous. I want to be a video game person. I don't really want to interact. There's a huge underbelly of reasons why it's not connecting out there and I don't think it's construction's fault. Construction is just paying the price, because it's just culture. It's the culture, it's culture today, and what we have to do is, as an industry, we have to find a way to get some connective tissue in order to communicate the younger generation.

Speaker 1:

Well, what we need to make sense of is personal altruism Is the higher reason I'm doing something. It's not just about the paycheck. Yeah, sure, okay, yeah, you can make $110,000 working on a job site within two years. You can you go crush it, you can do that. That's a lot of money for somebody 21 years old. I didn't make that was 21 years old, right, I mean, that's huge bucks.

Speaker 1:

However, there has to be something more than that. There has to be some other reason, because they might, because the argument might be yeah, but you got to work X, y, z days, you have to do this, you have to do that. And they might be like yeah, I mean, it's what? Are you not paying me a million dollars a year? That's how off the connect is of hard work. Are you paying me $500,000, or why should I go and work super hard? The working super hard comes down from how things are in high schools. How things are like the last few years, the grade of 10, 11, and 12 of high schools. It's a walk in the park. The teachers don't want to tell the kids anything. There's not a lot of top-down. This is where you have to learn about authority and you have to learn to respect authority, and they don't respect even their own teachers, because they're not respectful in general, because we're losing the whole plot.

Speaker 2:

Yeah I mean I. I think we have uh issues in different sectors too, like in uh healthcare.

Speaker 1:

It's everywhere, everywhere. So it's.

Speaker 2:

It's not only construction.

Speaker 1:

No, it isn't but we're just feeling it, feeling it more we're feeling it more because we're the ones that need it.

Speaker 1:

We need input and we're not getting the input. We're like why are we not getting input? Well, it's not a construction issue, it's a cultural issue, but I think we could do it. You've seen those ads where it's like someone on the back of a fishing boat and it says this is construction. It's like okay, but to a kid they're like that's 40 years away. So there needs to be these. I think there's a handful of people I've seen walking around here that are young in construction, in their mid-20s. They're crushing it. They're making great money, they've got a great life. They come around. I can see them. I've seen them during this. I keep waving at a few people. I see them. I'm like these people are good. These people need to be the benchmark and also the inspiration for how quickly, quickly, you can be successful in this industry.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so that comes to basically those promotional programs that I'm talking about. We can promote more about, you know, have success stories, exactly, and then showcase them and then educate this. I would say in earlier ages, at schools, I think we should educate the teachers first so they can understand this and then they can teach the younger generation. It's something that you have to build inside people from the beginning. It's a culture, as you said, and it's basically heartening every sector, but you feel it in construction more, as you said, we do.

Speaker 1:

Well, this has been awesome. These are short interviews, as you know. Everyone's got the same kind of airtime, so thank you very much. So, cape Construction, congratulations on making it through all the way from Estimator to this over the last 20 years. It's fantastic. Say hello to Wayne for me.

Speaker 2:

I will.

Speaker 1:

He's on my chat. I should actually he's on my WhatsApp group here, but thank you very much it was my pleasure talking to you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's nice to meet you as well. Thank you very much. Thanks, goodbye. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube. You can also sign up for our monthly newsletter at sitemaxsystemscom slash, the site visit, where you'll get industry insights, pro tips and everything you need to know about the site visit podcast and Sitemax, the job site and construction management tool of choice for thousands of contractors in North America and beyond. Sitemmax is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building.