The Importance of People & Culture in Construction

On this episode, we speak with Justin and Zack about the culture and process behind Caliber. We discuss how Caliber as a company has been able to build a culture and community that supports innovation, quality, and speed. And how this culture has propelled their growth and success. Throughout the episode, We speak with Zack and Justin about how they were able to build a culture and process that actually worked and wasn’t just writing on a wall. We discuss Caliber’s 1 Page Strategic Plan and how this document has played such a key role in defining who they are, where they are going, and what they do. Lastly, We dig into the core values of Caliber (own it, crush it, love it) and how these values have impacted who they hire, promote and work with. Justin and Zack provide insight into their relentless focus on putting the right people in the right seats to drive the business. As we know, The construction industry is all about people and process. This is a great episode to learn how to build culture, manage people and position a business for growth.  For business owners looking to transition from building projects to building a business, this is the one for you! 

About Caliber Projects :

Caliber Projects is a Construction Management firm based out of the Fraser Valley.  They specialize in multi-family residential projects. With over 20 staff and a unique approach to construction, Caliber has made a name for itself based on quality, speed, and innovation. Over the past 10 years, Caliber has delivered hundreds of projects.  Building over 1700 homes, and executing on over $100 million dollars of construction volume.

http://caliberprojects.com/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to the Site Visit Podcast. Leadership in construction with perspective from the job site. With your host, Andrew Hansen, James Faulkner, and Christian Hamm. Let's get down to it.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Okay, episode number 19. Today on the podcast, we speak with Justin and Zach from Caliber Projects. Caliber Projects is a construction management firm based out of the Fraser Valley. They specialize in multifamily residential projects. With over 20 staff and unique approach to construction, Caliber has made a name for themselves based on quality, speed, and innovation. Over the past ten years, Caliber has delivered hundreds of projects, building over 1,700 homes and executing on over$100 million of construction volume. On this episode, we speak with Zach and Justin about the culture and process behind Caliber. We discuss how Calibur as a company has been able to build a culture and community that supports innovation, quality, and speed. We discuss how this culture has propelled their growth and success. It hasn't been easy, but as they highlighted throughout the episode, it's been worth it to become who they are today. Throughout the episode, we speak with Zach and Justin about how they were able to build the culture and process that actually works and it's not just writing on a wall. We discuss Caliber's one-page strategic plan and how this document has played such a key role in defining who they are, where they're going, and what they do. Lastly, we dig into the core values of Caliber. Own it, crush it, love it. We discuss how these values have impacted who they hire, who they promote, and who they work with. Justin and Zach provide insight on their relentless focus on putting the right people in the right seats to drive their business. As we all know, the construction industry is all about people and process. This is a great episode to learn how to build culture, how to manage people, and how to position a business for growth. For business owners out there looking to transform from building projects to building a business, this is the one for you. Let's get to it.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

Okay, we're back just um on the heels of a trip to Chicago, checking out some new customers as well as a trade show. We got uh Andrew and James, and we're joined by Justin and Zach from Caliber Projects. How's it going, guys?

SPEAKER_05 2:30

It's going really well. Glad to be here. Doing great. Yeah, thank you. That's good.

SPEAKER_04 2:35

Well, uh, this has been a long time coming, um, and there's lots of talk about. You guys are killing it here in the Vancouver, Greater Vancouver market, and we'll talk a little bit more about that. But why don't you give us an intro to yourselves and to caliber projects?

SPEAKER_05 2:50

Yeah, uh thanks, Christian. Yeah, so Caliber Projects, we are a construction management general contracting company, uh operating primarily out of the Fraser Valley, Vancouver area, specializing specifically in multifamily residential construction. Uh we do a little bit of commercial work as well, but for the most part, it's uh townhomes, apartments. It's um yeah, mid-rise residential construction.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Sweet. We're just getting situated here with some of the mics. I know it's crowded in here when we've got we've got five of us. Five of us, yeah. Yeah, and Andrew takes up all that real estate on one side.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

I do have a whole side here. You god, you're always taking up so much space. Hey, looks like you need to what can you do?

SPEAKER_03 3:36

It's all the working out. What can you do? Quite buffed these days, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Hey, no one is that on air. Is that on air? It is, yeah. Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 3:42

Um, cool. Uh, and maybe Zach, you want to chat a little bit as well? Um, and then intros for your guys, your your yourselves personally, and how you got into the game you're in.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Yeah. Um, well, again, like uh Justin said, thank you so much for having us here at the uh Site Visit Podcast. Um, yeah, so Justin gave a quick overview of Caliber, and that's uh, you know, as a as a multifamily uh construction company, um, or sandboxes out uh generally in the Delta Surrey Langley area. Um myself, I should probably start off by introducing myself. I'm I'm the CFO of uh caliber projects. I started with the company coming up on uh two years ago in January. And uh it's it's been one heck of a ride. Um just experienced incredible growth. Um it's a funny story how how Justin kind of got me introduced to to Caliber. Um, we can get into that a little bit later. My background I'm a uh chartered accountant by profession. I was actually I spent the first part of my career uh down here in Vancouver working at PwC and uh from there I kind of bounced around through through different few different uh companies and uh two years ago ended up out in the valley working with uh with Justin, creating something awesome. And so Price Waterhouse, that's uh you guys know how to send out invoices. So that's good thing you know how to collect money. I know how to uh yeah, I know how to balance some books, yeah. I know how to do some audit uh techniques. Yeah, they're a great firm. They are great.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

Expensive and great. Still very expensive, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

Yes, yeah, but very good at what they do.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:14

Did you uh what was your background in construction, or did you just jump in knowing Justin and some of the team? And then that was your Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

So I I mean I've always had an interest in construction. My my daddy's uh journeyman carpenter, built the house that I that I uh grew up in. Oh, cool. And uh as a young kid, I was I was out there swinging the hammer around, worked as a framer in high school, laborer, um, and uh in a professional capacity, never thought I'd get back into it. My dad always wanted to to uh start a construction company, Staples Construction Services. Um that is catchy. Yeah. Yeah, I might still take that. Um, but uh yeah, no, it's it's uh it's kind of been a full circle. Always had an interest in in real estate and construction. And uh when Justin approached me here with uh you know his vision for the company and what they were doing out in the valley, um it was it was intriguing, and I thought it was uh a good opportunity to kind of get back to some roots that I had.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Wow, that's awesome. That's a unique combo uh framer, but also a CFO.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

So that's we'll don't ask me to uh you know throw a hammer on anymore. I'm just gonna be hurting people. So we'll chalk that up as a unicorn.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Yeah, um before we jump into a lot of what we're gonna talk about today, what's a quick snapshot of size of caliber, maybe not construction volume, but staff services. I know some of the conversation we had, a big focus on pre-con. So maybe it's a quick snapshot just to give the listeners a rough idea of kind of size and and uh volume for you guys.

SPEAKER_05 6:40

Yeah. Yeah. So for the most part, we we strictly manage uh the projects that we work on. So either construction management or general contracting, um, our sites will have uh, you know, a project manager, uh project coordinator, site supervisor, uh CSO. Um depending on the size of the job, there could be a carpenter or a laborer involved in it as well. Um so you know, we we don't actually do a lot of physical work ourselves, it's it's pretty much strictly management uh in the office. Uh obviously we have the the accounting team, and then we have um myself and and another guy working on business development and again, you know, some quality control stuff. But for the most part, I mean we're we're a pretty pretty uh well-oiled machine. We don't have a lot of people working um with the company for the for the volume that we do. I think right now we're we're just over 20 employees, and um yeah, we we do a lot of work with those guys.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

So yeah. So you you founded this company, so how did this uh obviously some personal background on you would be awesome and why you started the company and what motivates you, etc.?

SPEAKER_05 7:45

Right. So growing up as a kid, uh I always anticipated, you know, becoming a carpenter and and starting my own framing company and and just you know physically working with my hands and and doing that sort of thing. Um the problem was is uh my dad wouldn't let me just go out and become a carpenter. He said, You can you can be a carpenter if you want, but you gotta go get your business degree first. So um I ended up going to um BCIT um and uh chose a path, get got a construction management degree. And after that, I was I was working in construction and it was it was a cold February day, and I'm up on a roof, and it's uh it's minus one and it's it's raining. That only happens in Vancouver for whatever reason. Normally it would be snowing and we would have got to go home, but minus one and raining. That's the worst. Minus one and raining, and uh salt water rain. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and at that point I was like, I do not want to do this for the rest of my life. And it was at that point that I, you know, uh went and found a real job in construction management, uh, went and worked for a developer, um, doing a townhouse site. First first job was 21 years old running a 120-unit townhouse site. Uh, had no business doing that, but based on you know where the market was at and the the trade labor pool, uh somebody took a flyer and took a chance on me and ended up getting the job and uh worked out really well. Um was doing that until about 2008 when uh I got laid off from the job that I was working at. I was doing uh a couple of large-scale uh apartments, four-story wood frame on on top of two-story parkade. And in 2008, as most of you guys know, the market really took it took a dive for the worst and um got laid off and unfortunately couldn't find uh you know a job in construction at that point. Nobody was hiring, so I decided just if I couldn't find a job, I better make a job. Uh so I incorporated Caliber Projects Um in 2009, it was, and uh just got started from there, picked up a few single-family lots, built some homes uh by the end of 2009. The market had come back. Um just continued on picking up lots, building homes. And uh what I what I liked about it was was the freedom of working on my own, and and sort of the entrepreneurial side of me was was was sort of getting started. And uh but the problem that I was having was that with the way the market was, you needed an incredible amount of capital in order to maintain and and sustain any sort of consistent growth. Um and and for me, what I really liked is I really like the large projects. I like working with with teams of people, I like working with um, you know, complex complex uh building materials and and and um you know I I I guess it was just like any little kid, right? I mean you you want to play with the big excavators and cranes and the dump trucks and and and you know, I like the action. So at that point, um, you know, while I had been doing the single family thing, I decided that I want to get back into the multifamily and uh really pushed hard uh at a bunch of townhouse sites and and and condos and you know over the last four or five years, uh been able to take the the knowledge of construction gained over the over the in the years past and and take the passion that I have for for the large projects and put together a team of people uh that allows us to just crush it on these large projects. I mean, construction's a real passion of mine. I mean it's it's something that I always knew I wanted to do. Um and I just love it. I you know, there's there's no better thing for me than to go to a site and watch excavators and and and you know smell the the the diesel from the form form ply and and you know like the all the like the different senses that that you know you can you know take away from these sites. I mean that's that's what really attracts me to construction.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Um so the when you when you started the company, did you what like employee number one? How did that kind of work out? Was that uh interesting? Or was it employee number one, two, three, four immediately?

SPEAKER_05 11:38

No, no, we started off relatively small. I mean, the first I would say three, four years. Um, you know, employee number one came on as a carpenter. Uh it was myself and the carpenter. Um, then we hired a laborer, then we hired a quality control guy. Um, you know, and kind of we we added a couple of guys here and there over the first, I'd say four or five years. Uh, but the growth was was relatively slow. Um and that that simply was was because you know I really hadn't gone out into the multi-side, multi-family side of things. So single family side, we were able to maintain a small team. Um, you know, we did a lot of the work ourselves at that time as well. It wasn't until we got into the multifamily that we really had to scale. What's really interesting about that is you know, people ask me, you know, you know, what are you? Like, like, like what do you what do you do? Um, you know, I'll I'll just say I build things, right? And and I've had um a lot of fun uh building homes over the last 10 years of my life. Um, but I would say that I'm having a lot more fun building my business now than I am building homes. You know, I don't physically do any construction anymore. I mean, I do at home. Uh, you know, I still on weekends it's still a favorite passion of mine to go out and help uh help a buddy build a deck or or you know, pour a pour a sidewalk or or do whatever. But you know, for from a work perspective, I don't do any of that anymore. My main job now is is really business development, it's HR, it's strategy, it's it's all of those things that you need to do in order to really build a business. Okay, I'm just noting here, still helps buddies building.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

Yeah, yeah. You let me know.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

You let me know. Work for work for beer. Yeah, yeah. The uh still number for Justal Bean.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

I'm thinking for myself.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

He also has a pickup truck too, so for moving. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

So was it always caliber from like the the did you come up with that name immediately, or did was there a little bit of a gap there, and then you were like, hey, we should call ourselves something cool, or how that works.

SPEAKER_05 13:33

Well, I don't know. Uh so so any any entrepreneur that started a business will will sympathize with this, but caliber wasn't my first choice. Uh, I don't actually remember what my first choice was anymore, but because of the way the name registry works with within the province of British Columbia, yeah, you you uh you're able to apply with three different names every time you apply for a name. Anyways, this was my third try at uh names, and you know, I was uh at this point I was just going through the Theosaurus and just like picking names that sounded cool. And um yeah, so so caliber came out of uh you know the Theosaurus. Am I saying that right? The source. I like your take on it. I was gonna say more of a dinosaur way. Yeah, I love that. All over it. Yeah, yeah. Watch out for the Theosaurus. But it it's historic. It's it's worked out well. Um it's when when when picking names, and and you guys probably recognize this too, you want to find something that that people use often, um, you know, just in their daily speak. And uh it's interesting how often the word caliber uh comes up when it is, it's a good word.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

Yeah, you always talk about that with your people, you know, high caliber people, high caliber yeah, yeah work. Yeah, it's a good one.

SPEAKER_04 14:39

So are you celebrating a 10-year anniversary or have you already celebrated it?

unknown 14:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 14:45

Yeah, that that's a good question. Very good. I wrote that down too. This actually just came up the other day and and it kind of came and and went. What did what did we do with that, Zach?

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Uh I I just answered an email that uh hey, when when were we incorporated? And it was oh September 12th, 2009. And this is this was just a few days after. I was like, and that's already coming. There should be. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

We'll be there.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

That's fantastic though.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah, yeah. Um, I really like the comment you said uh uh when uh you transitioned to growing your business and and putting in scale and talking about build you have more fun building your business as much as you enjoyed building construction. And as we're thinking about what we want to talk about today, two of the main topics. I think a lot of construction businesses struggle with this is how do you build your company? And especially in a people-driven business like construction, um, a lot of it comes down to culture and process and seeing caliber grow and uh seeing your you know how you guys approach projects and hire talent. I think you guys have done that really well. And I think that's kind of the topics we want to dig into is just people and process and culture. And so maybe that's kind of an open-ended question to dig into those those elements, maybe the way you guys approach um how you guys manage your staff and how you guys approach projects. But um, it was kind of funny that the way you said that was I wrote that down. It's kind of unique. Building a company is is you know just as unique. So yeah, open that one up to you guys and and maybe uh dig into how you've approached that.

SPEAKER_05 16:14

Yeah, so so let me say this. So it's it was it's 10 years. Um thanks for pointing that out. 10 years. Um first I'd say five, six years, relatively slow growth. Um, you know, I was I probably I um as a business owner, I I had it I owned a job. So I don't know if what that means is that you know, I didn't really own a business, I owned a job. Like I was able to, you know, I earned a nice little living and and it was good and and everything else was great and all that. But it wasn't until I realized that I needed to own a business that things really started to take off. And it was at that point that I started to become real about you know growing the business and I got educated. And you know, I re I read, you know, you read all the books, you read the emyth, you read scaling up, you read good to great, you know, I could go on. Um, you know, at this point now I feel like I read, I got like three books on the go at all times, and you know, you're constantly trying to pick up different things and and learn how to grow uh your business. But one of the most impactful things that I you know, the thing that made real that really turned the switch for me was realizing that, you know, although systems and processes are really important, it's really about people and culture. If you can get the people and culture side of things down in your business, it's a total game changer. Well, I mean, construction is a is a you know, however many thousands of years old industry, you know, we're not really doing anything different now than we were a thousand years ago. I mean, we got some cool different apps and products that we can use. I mean, thanks to Site Max, I mean, you guys are helping us with our efficiency on site. And, you know, you've got you know, cranes that can lift way more than they used to, and and concrete trucks that can deliver more and you know, engineering practices that have changed. But for the most part, there's really no competitive advantage from one construction company to the other when it comes to product and process. Where where there is a frontier that I believe is a differentiator, it's it's in the culture. We're all competing for talent. We all want you know the best people to do the work for us. And and and the worst way to do that, the worst way to attract those people is to do it by just paying more and more and more and more. The best way to do that is to create an awesome culture where people feel engaged in in what they're doing, where they feel a part of something special, where they can go to work every day and and feel satisfied that they made a difference and that the people that they're working for really care about them. It wasn't until I realized that and I realized how to manage and and and and I I actually really don't like the word manage. I like the word lead. It wasn't until I realized that I really needed to lead people as opposed to managing them that it really clicked and that the difference that we've really made a difference. And that's why for us, I mean, we you know, we we spent a year and a half putting together a one-page strategic plan. I don't know how many of you are familiar with that, but if you don't know what a one page, one-page strategic plan is, look it up. Basically, it creates the manual for how you're gonna operate your business. And the first thing you need to do is understand why it is that you do what you do and why, and and you know, there's these budward buzzwords nowadays, why and purpose and you know, all this this fun stuff. But ultimately, why do you get out of bed? And if you're if you're if your first answer to that is well to make money, well, you know, that that that's not gonna cut it. If that's what you're if that's why you're doing what you're doing, then then like you know, go back to the drawing board and and really come up with a better reason. So for us, we went through a process, we hired a coach, uh, we worked through this. Um, we're working with with uh principals from Patrick Lincioni to to Vern Harnish, uh Jim Collins. We're taking all of these these different programs uh and and these different these different guys and we're putting it together. And we've discovered um just recently that our why is is really it's all about building people and process. So it's not about making money, it's not about building uh, you know, a billion-dollar business. It's it's it's not about you know having our name on the top of a building. It's really about people and process. And once we discovered that, you know, and and uh ultimately I probably knew that years ago. That was when that switch sort of the light bulb went on, but I didn't really know how to articulate it. Now that I know how to articulate it, when we're dealing with our staff, when we're making decisions on different things, we're able to look at, well, why are we doing that? You know, why are we looking at hiring this person or or or changing the role of that person? You know, what why do we have so many young people working for caliber? You know, it would be a lot easier for us to just hire experienced people, plug it, plug them into the different projects and have them do the work. But that's not where we get our satisfaction. We get our satisfaction of seeing these young people grow and and and you know, not just mature in in their roles and construction, but mature as as men and women, as leaders in their communities.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

That is uh, yeah, there's a lot there. It's very well um very well said, and clearly you guys have been in all the time we've known you very focused on people. Um and we'll get we'll get more into that. And oftentimes, I mean we say it's not about the money, but the byproduct of these things usually is a successful growing healthy business, right? Um, which is great. But starting with a more foundational piece of of the people and the culture part is huge. So that's uh that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

Um So the the continuum that you have in between um what you're doing with your people and um profit on a project, let's say. I mean, ha have you come into a a headwind there where you're like, oh, I've got to do the right thing with my people, but we got a money situation here where because businesses do have to be profitable. Yeah. And that sometimes it's an inequitable position to be in. So you have to figure out where you invest that energy. You go, okay, well, I gotta I gotta invest in this person for next time and eat it on the money. Yeah. Have you come into that situation before?

unknown 22:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:17

So so first of all, I mean we're we're we are in business to make money. So let me be clear. No, for sure. We're not a we're not a nonprofit. Even those have two. I mean, they're still financially accountable too, right? Yeah, exactly. Um, so I mean we're we're we're obviously very conscious about you know making decisions that are that are financially stewardly. Um that being said, you know, when when a decision needs to be made um uh on on how to deal with with a with a person or how to deal with with people in general, there there often is a financial component to it, right? So so sometimes we will, you know, we've all had to deal with with the with an employee that you know it's it's just easier not to deal with you know the elephant in the room or you know there's a problem with that person or this, that, or the other thing, you know, uh maybe we're paying them too much, maybe we're not, who knows, right? But at the end of the day, the the two are often, you know, the financial decision and and the people decision are often very closely related, right? So you could hold on to a person for longer than you should. Uh who are you who you're not doing that person a favor by holding on to them longer than you should, or by by continuing to give them false hope or anything like that. So, you know, if if if I think that you know, growing up if growing the person also involves helping them develop a financial future for themselves, finances will come into play. So, so one of the questions that I asked one of my supervisors, so he was a carpenter at the time, and you know, we he was trying to decide, you know, what do I do? Do I go back to school? Do I do I go to BCIT and get my architectural building engineering diploma? Or do I go, do I go and and get my carpentry, or or what do I do? And I said, Well, where do you want to live? He's like, Well, I want to I want to live in in I want to live in Murrayville, and I want to, I don't want my wife to work, and I want to have a bunch of kids, and I want to do this, that, and the other thing. I'm like, well, okay, well, let's get you there. Let's figure out what we need to do in order to get you there, and and we'll we'll figure out what kind of education you need, uh, you know, the the role that you need to play in in this company that will provide you with the salary that you need in order to live that lifestyle. Right? And if if that person told me that he wanted to do, you know, whatever it is that he wanted to do, and I didn't think he was capable of it, I would probably say, well, I don't know that you're capable of doing that. I'd say, look at your skills and talents, look at what you know those skills and talents can can earn you on the open market, you know, you're probably better suited in in a different role. Right? So like if you if you really get open and honest with your people and and you put their needs ahead of your own and and the company's you know sort of needs, um, you can make smart decisions which will which will benefit the people, but will also benefit your company financially as well. The two do go hand in hand. Yeah, totally. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 25:15

Okay, so in a especially in Vancouver, where we're dealing with um you know lots of lots of competitors, constructions all around us, tight labor market, all that kind of stuff. People jump around, hop around, do all sorts of things. This culture piece is really key, especially in construction. We've watched you guys kind of build your team and how solid it is that you there's a certain vibe when you walk into your office, you just feel it. It's just like there's something unique. So, in light of those things, competition, um, tight labor market, just what are the some of the things you're navigating there in terms of um you know, challenges and stuff like that and keeping culture tight?

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Yeah, well, I uh that's a really fair question. And I think going back to the point that was earlier made, culture is such an easy buzzword to pick on, and I think we're all clear on on the significance of that. There's countless, you know, pieces of literature out there and coaching, everything's kind of centered on this. But at the end of the day, what is it? I mean, it's different for every single company and organization out there. Yeah, so I mean, to like the disclaimer up front right now is hey, the culture that we have at Caliber works really well and is incredibly effective for us at Caliber. That might not work so well if you try to apply that somewhere else.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Um, but what we can do is kind of pick apart, you know, why why is it so effective at culture or sorry, at caliber? And why, you know, what what have we been doing well? What are the steps? And I think that's something that we can relate to to other companies and and uh that we've been learning on, and uh that other people, you know, like SiteMax looks at us and says, hey, you know, we've made these observations, what are you guys doing well? And uh it does go back to this strategic plan. And something that, you know, we kind of glazed over at the beginning there was how much effort went into identifying the components of our culture. And uh, and a key, and a key aspect of that were uh is actually our values that we have. I mean, you've got to own it, crush it, and love it. And uh and we celebrate these values every single day at our company in the huddles that we have, um, in our weekly meetings, uh, even when it comes to decisions for our business, business decisions that we make, we always tie it back to this pan this plan and the uh the values that we have. Um so to answer your question about well, how do we you know how do we do this culture thing? We what what we're very good at and what uh Justin's been incredibly effective at leading us in is being very intentional about building a team that is aligned with these values. I mean, if we do that, the rest of the decisions it's so much easier to navigate. The problems that we have, the people problems, the business decisions. If if we're all operating on the same wavelength, then you don't need to worry about uh the hurt feelings, the politics, all these other distractions that we have.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

The when you talk about wavelength, I'll uh it almost seems to me that it's just an observation, but you can go into a company and you can sort of it's kind of like a dog whistle, right? You just can you hear it? Not really, but you get this sense of like a frequency and this kind of frequency. I remember when we came to your um uh Friday. Abre work. Yeah, Apri Work thing.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

I thought you trademarked that.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

The observation I have was like that I don't know, these people operate on a on a very consistent frequency with each other. And I think that that it comes down to the being so sincere, I think is the most important thing. Because, you know, even I mean, we've been uh in business now for for a while, and we've you know even deeper in business on a number of other um levels. But one thing that I did notice, even all the interactions back with emails and all that sort of stuff, you guys are very direct but sincere at the same time, which I think is almost hard for people to do. Because you kind of show all your cards, but you're like, hey, this is what we're about. So there's nothing hidden here. Yeah, we might ask you some hard questions, but hey, not a big deal. And I think that that that sincerity uh from doing business, I think it's it's quite uh there's no opacity there that people are gonna have any problems with. And I think that's kind of how you how you run things. So, you know, as you said, the culture is like this buzzword. The problem is that culture is, as you say, either intentional or not. Either you're paying attention, it's kind of like a brand, right? Everyone has a brand, they're either in control or they're not. It's either a crappy company or it's a good company. It's one of the two. So, but it all comes down to, I think, that that the starting point and what's the lightning rod for whatever that direction is gonna be. And it seems like you guys are kind of nailed that. But just saying, hey, we're gonna do a workshop, we're gonna get some culture, it's like, well, you already have one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:20

There's a lot of intention behind all this, you know. Like it's not just as easy as saying, okay, we're gonna do this and we're gonna get some coaching and whatever. It takes a lot of really hard, diligent, repeated, consistent work um for context for our listeners. Uh, the one-page strategic plan, uh, where does it come from? Um, you know, what sort of things are you using for coaching, etc., just to give them context around that.

SPEAKER_05 30:44

Yeah, so uh you guys obviously can't see this, but I I'd have it in front of me. So I'll walk you through it, right? So so the one-page strategic plan is is you can set it up in many different ways, but you know, on the on we we've got it broken down into three different areas. So we've got sort of the um the intangibles on the left side, um, which which talks about our purpose, our brand promise, our values, X Factor, and Sandbox. Um in the middle we have our our our B HEG, our big hairy audacious goal, our five-year goal, our one-year goal, strengths, opportunities, and threats. And then on the right hand side, we have um we have our quarterly goals. So we have we have a uh we have goals for um for the growth to to meet these one, five, and and the the B HEG goals. So so basically what we're doing is is on the left hand side, we create the we we create the rules for how we operate. And the beauty of creating these rules is it is it allows us to, you know, when we make decisions on things, we know what the parameters are for making those decisions. So are we gonna hire a guy or are we not gonna hire him? Well, does he meet our core values, yes or no? No? Okay, well, it's easy. We're not gonna hire him. Um when it comes to to our goals, um, you know, right now this is one that we're really struggling with. And it's I'm very thankful that we have these goals, but we are we're finding more and more right now that people are coming to us and asking them to do work for us, and we're we're just saying, no. And the reason for that is because it it essentially doesn't fit within our plan, right? So we've we've got people that are are looking at doing projects that are outside of our sandbox or that will push us over, you know, what we can, you know, realistically uh do from volume perspective. Um you know, if if we can't, if those, if if if those parameters for that project don't fit within you know our one-page strategic plan, it's an easy no. Um and then you know, breaking it down into something that you can actually uh that's that's a little bit more usable. So, you know, we talk about rocks, right? So you got the big rocks and then you got the little rocks and then you got the sand, right? So so the B the B Hag is like the big rock, right? The five-year goal is is is like uh you know some smaller rocks and then one and then working it all the way down to you know kind of what we do on a on a weekly basis would be would be the sand, right? So, you know, in order for us to really execute on our plan and make sure that we are operating as efficiently as possible, we need to have goals which stem from a larger goal. Um I'll just walk through the the left side, sort of the rules, right? We talked about our purpose. Um we love building people and process, our brand promise. Um we will not compromise on relationship, efficiency, precision, and transparency. Our values are own it, crush it, and love it. Our X factors are our capacity to attain and attract young talent. Our uh one or another one of our X factors is total quality management system, um, which involves us uh doing quality control all the way through drawing review to product handover as well as technology innovation. Our sandbox is the um the Fraser Valley, for Fraser Valley, which is uh just a region here out in Vancouver, Fraser Valley. Um and its projects between uh sort of five and and thirty million dollars. So that gives you a bit of an insight on to the rules of the game for caliber.

SPEAKER_04 34:14

It's very specific. There's nothing that's like vague, right? And if everyone's seeing this or everyone's measured by it coming into the to the business, um, yeah, there's not a lot of ambiguity in it. No.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

And you and you say with confidence too. You're saying it, and I'm looking over at Zach and he's nodding his head, yeah. Reinforcing you. Yeah. What um you guys have had a lot of growth, so you've brought on some new staff. What does the process look like when you bring on new employees? Is it in the recruitment stage you have this discussion where here's who we are, here's who we want to become? Is it when they're onboarded? Um if someone's listening in their construction company, like, okay, I'm gonna do a strategic plan. How do you implement it with your team? And do you have any tips, tricks um that you found have really resonated? That's a big question.

SPEAKER_05 35:01

Um maybe not the tips, tricks, because that's but so so at the end of the day, it comes back to the one-page strategic plan. And this is something that we're working working through right now, but we have we have revenue targets, and revenue and production, you know, the two go hand in hand for us. So we have an idea where we want to be in one year, five years, you know, our B hang, right? So we've got these ideas on where we want to be, and we've put together a revenue model, and that revenue model is linked with production. We know what our people can produce. So we know for every you know million dollars of of production, you know, how many people we need to fill that role. So right now, uh, you know, we're we're you know looking at 2019. 2019 is you know, for argument's sake, it's in the books, you know, in terms of production. Yeah. It's 2020 now that we're really looking forward to 2020 and 2021. And we've got our production sort of lined up for the for the next year. Now we need to figure out what roles we need to fill in order to meet those production targets. So we take a revenue model and then we do our um oh, what's the name of the the um the corporate organizational chart, the court, the org chart. We take the org chart, we match it with a revenue model, and we look at that and we say, okay, what holes do we need to fill over the next two to two to four months, uh, four to six months over the next year. So we know what we need, right? And we just sat down the other day and we know that we need two carpenter labors, a laborer, and a I don't know, somebody else. I forget now. Um so we needed these roles filled. So now we go through the process of of finding these people. And and to be honest with you, like we we we have we don't have a hard time finding people. It's actually been really easy for us, especially with with the growth that we've experienced in the last little while. And typically we use internal recruiting. So we have a whole um standard operating procedure for our own team whereby we go through our own network and contacts and come up with people that would be well suited to fit the roles that we need filled. You know, good people hang out with good people. I mean, nothing against recruiters. Uh they they do serve a uh a purpose, but at the end of the day, if you can get your own staff to do the recruiting, you're gonna be that much farther ahead and it's way cheaper. And they're gonna hire based off the culture. We we've we've noticed that internally as well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

Yeah, as we grow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

No, that's awesome. Answer your question? Yeah, and I mean, how open is this strategic plan to the group? I think I've been in your office. I'm not sure. Is this obviously it's out there, people your staff know about it. Um, it's talked about a lot.

SPEAKER_05 37:38

Yeah, so so one of the things that we wanted to talk today about was um management and and alignment, alignment between you know the different levels of management. And you know, you you guys, some would refer to it as a flat management structure. Um, you know, unfortunately, a flat management structure doesn't actually work. Like it's a nice idea. Um so what we've tried to do is is is you know, we we have a vertical management system, um, but we have done our best to ensure, and and and we're not perfect at it. I mean, we we're not perfect, but we've done we've done our best to ensure that everybody in the organization understands what the direction of the company is. So, you know, we we have discussions uh at a high level uh with the management team. We make sure that those discussions and the decisions that are made get you know brought down to the production team, and then from there we're taking that and we're we're we're bringing it to the online uh the the guys on on site, making sure that they understand it as well. Our one-page strategic plan is not a secret. Um, we don't broadcast it to to you know our competitors and the rest of the world. I mean, you guys are looking at it right now, so you guys, you know, full disclosure, you know what's going on. Um our employees have access to it. Um it's in the office, it's you know, it's in my day, it's in my daytime where I pull it out often when I'm meeting with clients and people like that. Um so it's it's no secret. Um maybe it should be. I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

How often do you guys meet as teams or or sub-teams, smaller teams on a weekly basis or monthly basis?

SPEAKER_05 39:19

Um so we have um you guys are gonna think this is really dorky, but like we have a meeting rhythm SOP. Nice. So we actually So we we have um an SOP for people who may not know what that is. A standard operating procedure. Yeah. SOP. I if you're in construction and you don't know what an SOP is, you need to figure that out. Yeah. We speak in acronyms. Anyway, so so we meet um so we were we were meeting quarterly with our with our management team, with our senior management team. Um we've actually changed that now. We're meeting triannually. We were having a hard time completing and meeting the objectives and goals in the quarterly uh meetings, just because of the way the year is sort of structured. Um from there we meet uh monthly with with the the management team. We actually one of the things we do as well is is we we label our meetings so they have a purpose. So our uh monthly meetings are called efficiency meetings. So we actually talk about, you know, we talk about some of the fun stuff uh that that we need to talk about in in business, but we the true purpose for getting together is to share the shared to share the experiences that we have across the different construction sites. So we talk about what are we doing on this, uh, what are we doing on one site and how can we implement that on another site? And the whole purpose of doing that is to create efficiency within the organization. Uh, we actually have awards for efficiency ideas. So every month we have a production and an administrative award. It's a$150 gift card to um Home Depot or um I don't know, uh Marks Work Warehouse. Mark's work warehouse. So whoever comes up with the best idea gets the$150 gift card. And and that that applies to the guys on site as well as the guys in on in the office. So um uh monthly efficiency meetings, um bi-weekly scaling up meetings. So uh that's when our admin team gets together and we talk about you know our our quarter, our triannual goals. Are we meeting the triannual goals? Are we um you know doing the different things that we need to do in order to grow and to scale and to meet the commitments that we've we've committed to? Um we do quarterly coach and connects with all of our staff. So that's um rather than doing one big review at the end of the year every three months, every staff member gets a review with their uh direct report, and we call that a coach and connect. And we uh we go through a bunch of different things there. I mean, that's a whole podcast in itself. Yeah. Um am I missing any meetings, Zach?

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Uh our daily huddles. Oh, daily huddles. I can't forget that tell us about the daily huddles. So, I mean, you you can probably tell why we need an SOP for the R meetings. So um going back to something that Justin already mentioned, just the the intention behind all of our meetings. We don't have a meeting unless we have a specific objective for it. Right. Um, you know, death by meetings, we we all we're all aware of of the negative kind of connotation that goes along with okay, more meetings, more meetings. Uh but for us, we we have a specific meeting rhythm that gives everyone in the organization an expectation for these are the meetings that we have to have on a regular basis. And zooming in on each of those types of meetings, like Justin already uh went through, there is a specific purpose for every one of these meetings. And one of the a key meetings that that I really appreciate and has kind of I think catapulted us out there in terms of of kind of galvanizing our culture is uh the daily huddle. And uh we're going back to this this plan here. Yeah, I mean, there's this plan captures everything. It's the framework for our company. Um there's certain things on there that, you know, it's confidential in nature, certain business plan um objectives, but there's the elements on the on the left-hand side there, the foundation, the framework for how we operate, that is something that absolutely every single company, uh, sorry, every individual in our company is is going to be aware of. Um the the values, we screen all of our candidates on these values. We assess them on on the fit and alignment with the company in accordance with the values that we have here. And uh in the daily huddle, that is a meeting that we have at the same time every single day, five five days a week, uh at 9 03. It's it's very important that it uh does not happen on on the uh on the hour. Um and uh everyone gets uh gathers. Around the table. This is it happens whether it's at site or at office. Everyone is having this on a daily basis. And I can speak to the office component. So every morning we gather around the table in the office and we have uh Kevin, our senior project manager. He he leads the morning huddle. If he's not there, then then I step up. Um we are very intentional about having this every single morning. And it's a quick discussion. We go around table. Uh we spend no more than uh a minute on uh every uh everyone in attendance that's to speak to the tasks that they have for the day. And it's very important that they um that everyone shares any roadblocks that they might be experiencing um in terms of achieving their own tasks. And uh and and that part is very critical because it allows us to very quickly and efficiently resolve any roadblocks that somebody might be experiencing by communicating in a platform where you've got multiple departments there, you can have something, you can have an issue raised, discussed, resolved, and actioned all within the the 10, 15 minutes that we spend there at the table.

SPEAKER_04 45:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

Um, and uh so once we go through uh, you know, we go through the action plan for the day and the Roblox, we end with uh a value share and a cheer. And the value share is uh tremendously important because this is an opportunity for anyone to raise um an instance, an observation that they made that reflects one of the three core values that we have at the company. And it's it's intentional and it's very important because it allows us to celebrate um any employee that is exhibiting any one of these values. And uh it's very important that any in in each of these meetings that we do have at least one person speaking up to an observation that they oh, you know, like uh Jerry stayed late to put together this proposal last night, you didn't have to, but you know, it's really important to the rest of the company here. Um, way, way to go, Jerry, way to own it. Right. I mean, that's just that's just one example um of many that that could be uh exhibited there. And uh I think being intentional about celebrating the values that reinforces you know the foundation for a company. And you start off the day like that, right? You start off celebrating what makes your company really effective. Um, that puts us all in the right mindset. Yeah, we're all aligned.

SPEAKER_04 46:31

And these are happening on site as well each day, every single day. Caliber employees only. This isn't like a toolbox talk.

SPEAKER_05 46:37

It should be rolled out across all organizations. No, the uh the site guys meet at 703, not 903. Yeah, yeah. That's cool.

SPEAKER_04 46:46

Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, one thing I've noticed this is this is really cool stuff. There's just so much here we could go and talk about it forever, like you said, the whole podcast about this whole um meeting rhythms and everything. Um, I've noticed that the field in the office are really tight. So I've been at a few different um developer builders and general contracting companies. The field to officing is there's always a disconnect. Uh, some can do it really well, but there's seems to, there's just a disconnect in terms of um objectives and things that are at stake between the two parties, essentially, right? But I've noticed that you guys are all you're fairly in sync with each other. You know, when you do your appray work or whatever, your superintendents are there, your your your field, your your carpenters or whatever you have on staff, there everyone's there and seeming to be on the same wavelength. I know it all comes from this culture piece, but and and setting these things up. But how has that experience been in getting that dialed in? The field to office, relationship, connection, all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_05 47:47

It's a really good question, and it's one that we do struggle with. It's not one that I'd say we have nailed. Um you know, we've done our best to create a meeting rhythm that includes the site staff. Um, you know, and we do we do different events and things together, and and you know, it does help in creating the culture. Um I I think what one of the things that really helps us is is is the love it component, right? Um, you know, if you're the type of person that just you know wants to come to work um or or doesn't even really want to come to work, comes to work because you know they simply just they need to make some money and and you know pay the bills and you know go home and and work is sort of you know it's it's it's only a means to an end, and you don't really appreciate the value of of being part of of you know caliber and and what we're trying to do as a team. You know, you're not a culture fit. So the people that we have employed working with caliber um ultimately have to have that love it component. Now, now we we finished a project um about a year and uh just over a year ago. It was a really difficult project. Um not not that it was difficult in nature or anything, it was just that it was you know, we were dealing with with an overextended uh subtrade uh base. Uh it was hard to get people to do just about anything. Um, you know, we had some some you know typical problems, but but nothing nothing major. Um but it was difficult because the people that we were working with were not aligned. Some of some of some of our staff really were struggling with that love it component. And what ended up happening is you know, we evaluated you know what went well and what didn't go well in this project, and we realized really quickly that there was a few people that just did not meet our core value of love it. And it's unfortunate, but those people are no longer with us. And you know, we we are deadly serious about these values. And I you know, I know we talked about it already, and we can keep talking about it, but probably shouldn't. Um deadly serious about it. Like if you do not meet one of those, you you have to go or you ship up or ship up or ship out, shape up, ship up, shape up, ship up, shape up.

SPEAKER_04 49:56

Yeah, yeah. No, no, that that makes sense. Um all right, getting it back onto it, then a higher note from that is what are you most proud of of your team?

SPEAKER_05 50:05

The people. Absolutely the people. I I uh I am just absolutely blown away um just every day with with the quality of the individual and the talent that they uh possess. And and like, you know, I've said this, you know, a number of times. I'm like, what like why do these people work for me? Like, like what's going on here? Like this is just it's it's unreal. It's very it's a very uh humbling thought. Um you know, I I feel incredibly uh blessed and and and yeah, fortunate for sure. For sure. What about you, Zach?

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Yeah, that's an easy one too. Yeah, the the people. I mean, everything everything always comes back to the to the people and and the love it factor. Um I I think you know, if I had to dig into that a little bit deeper, uh, you know, the the level of excellence and performance that that we're able to put forward every day as individual employees can be traced back to the empowerment that each of us feel in order to strive for for that excellence and strive for the results. I mean, we we all know what our responsibilities are, we all feel incredibly accountable for our actions. Um and you know what? It at the end of the day, whether Justin's managing us or leading us, whatever you call it, you know, it's we're actually on if we're on a long leash. I mean, if I have to be perfectly honest about that. We operate with a high degree of autonomy, and I think that comes from Justin empowering all of his employees that that you've hired here, Justin, to to do what's best for the company. And there's no question about it. Like we all know, you know, like of course, of course, we have certain checks and balances, but at the end of the day, you know, the the senior leadership team can trust that we are all dialed in towards the same result. We're aligned in values, and that's the first step, right? If you all if you can trust the character and the intent of your employees, that takes a lot of the distrust out of you know, managing and leading people. And then you can leave your employees to pull the best from from their own uh their own abilities. And people always surprise you.

SPEAKER_03 52:31

Well, they're doing it within a framework you guys have set up. Right. And that's that's the part. Like, you know, they they can go out and do what what they want to some degree, but there is this sort of uh glass cube of we can do it within this. And then out of that, you're kind of not but you can see clearly.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 52:49

So when it comes to your um I it seems to me that when you're talking about uh the site people and then you're talking about people in the office. Um if you were to think about like back in old times where you had hunters that would go out and hunt any other people who'd be back at camp who are cooking or providing in other ways, they're different, they're kind of like different tribes, right? Even though they're part of the same village, one has a a certain thing that they know how to do, they know how to hunt. So they all kind of gather together because yeah, we know how to throw a spear that we're or knock, you know, chase down whatever. We all have these same skills. And then at the office or back at the village, who are people who prepare everything, whatever that is, they have their own well, we do things this way and their own process of what they do with the kill and all that sort of stuff. It's this it seems like construction has these two tribes that are part of one team. And so it seems like when we're talking about the things that you guys are proud of, you ha seem to have cracked that somehow.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

Yeah, I appreciate that that comment and the feedback there. Um there's no question about it. There, you know, we've we've got uh, you know, our site employees and our office admin employees, and in the age-old challenge, well, you've got two different departments or functional areas that are responsible, facing different challenges, and like oh, the site can say, oh, you don't know the challenges of the site, and the office is saying you have no idea what the back end is, and then therein lies, you know, a lot of problems that we see. Um you know, we we're we're we're in tune with what the overarching objectives are. We've got the same values, but at the end of the day, kind of what you're touching on there, we have a we have a saying that we say in the office, right people write seats. So we play to each other's strength. Like we we know that we're in the seat where we can offer the best productivity for, where we fit. It it isn't always that that easy, right? In practice, you know, we we you know do some shuffling of certain roles when somebody's really, you know, you know, you you might think this person might tell you, hey, I I really want to pursue this kind of role. You might try that out, but because of the personality and strengths and the skills, it might not be a good fit. And so we kind of shuffle around, and that helps us get that productivity out. Um, it you know, in in the site office scenario, it's not, it's it hasn't been an issue for us, right?

SPEAKER_01 55:19

Yeah, well, earlier on you said you guys read a lot of business books. I definitely would agree with that because you guys are nailing all like the one-liners from all the from all the high topic business books. So it's uh that's that's great to see. Um no, I think it's been an awesome kind of just conversation on culture, people, process. So many people beat culture, you know, that topic to death. And I think James made a good point of building that framework and it's you know become a system of its own. Um, so it's really exciting to hear, and I think the depth isn't common in construction, and that's you're investing in that infrastructure to kind of continue to grow and build. So it's exciting to hear, and it challenges me and how I look at my business and our team. And I think it's you guys made a both a good point. You're constantly working on it. It's not like you're sitting there saying we've nailed it, we're perfect. Um and I think that's kind of exciting to hear, and it's uh it's great for the industry. We, you know, when we look at the site visit podcast, and what we're trying to do is we're trying to engage and educate uh a community. And I think hearing Caliber's story should challenge a lot of different construction companies. It's not easy too. You have to invest in it, you have to hire the right people. Um seeing it clear that you guys look at your values and you make decisions based on it, it's not easy. I'm sure when you have a project that's knocking on your door, it's really easy to say yes to. It's hard to say no to. So I think you guys are an example. If someone's listening, do I take these steps? It works. You know, there's an ROI to it down the road. So I think that's that's awesome for people to hear. Um, I saw you rate in some notes on the last couple questions there. So I'll kind of maybe ask the two questions that I had written down here was what do the next 12, 24 months look like for CaliBur? I mean, look at the strategic plan, there's kind of an answer because you guys have that dialed in, but um, maybe give a quick snapshot whether it's big upcoming projects, whether it's big uh um initiatives. And then uh the last question there is just uh for people looking to apply, looking to um connect further with Caliber, what would you say to them? So maybe tackle the first question first. I don't know if those are the notes that you had scribbled there. No, I was doing the rapid fire.

SPEAKER_05 57:17

I was getting we'll get to that here. Just get ready for that. Yeah, yeah. Uh next 12 to 24 months. I mean, um, you know, just just looking at the plan here, uh, best in business culture of engaged A players uh bought into ownership thinking. Um so one of the things that we're we're working towards is uh open book management. Nice. So um, you know, we haven't haven't rolled it out yet. We're actually gonna be heading out to Missouri to SRC this November uh with our admin team and we're gonna be uh reviewing how open book management um can be done. And ultimately, you know, we we've got a we've got a good thing going. We want to keep it going. Um and we believe that by opening the books to to all those involved in in production um that um you know the the um by opening the books people will be able to measure their results on a on a you know whether it be daily, weekly, or or quarterly basis. They'll know how they impact the bottom line. I mean, we spent we spent the hour here talking about culture. I mean, that's just I mean it's a big part of what we do, um, but that's just a small part of what we do, right? I mean, at the end of the day, um James, you talked about you know there being a financial component to it. At the end of the day, you know, if we can attract the A players, if we can keep them engaged, if we can show them how their results how their outputs impact the bottom line, um it's gonna be it's gonna be tough for anybody to compete. I'm I'm sorry, guys.

SPEAKER_04 58:47

No, clearly you guys are paving away here and leading in a lot of areas. Um it's really good. I think our audience uh it's gonna hit hit hit a few things with them and it's really gonna help them out. Um want to jump into the rapid fire round. I'm ready. I see you making your notes. Zach and China, you guys both can answer this, but uh you've got your notes, so we should be able to hit this pretty hard. You guys ready to go? I'm gonna crack my neck here. I know you guys will like the first one. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

So how are you doing this? Are you asking me a question, then we're we're just like hitting the buzzer here for a semester or we just no you can I like to say both.

SPEAKER_04 59:21

You can both just respond. Awesome. You just go for a Zach. Okay, so so first first year. Um, general question what inspires you?

SPEAKER_00 59:28

A good story. A good story that that I can relate to. Leave it at that.

SPEAKER_05 59:33

Nice. I like that. Growth, seeing, seeing people grow, seeing the business grow, um, personal growth.

SPEAKER_01 59:40

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 59:41

Okay, I'm gonna write these down. Um, what's the best book you've read so far this year? Now we're further far enough in the year. What's the best book you've read in 2019?

SPEAKER_00 59:50

Um uh full disclosure, I am not a huge fan of reading the books. I I've got how much I love podcasts. So Gary Vaynerchuk. That's that's who I'm big on right now. Really? Yeah. I love I love what he's I'm picking up what he's putting down. It's a CFO getting behind Gary Vaynerchuk. That's it's unconventional, but I like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:12

Uh for me, um uh Never Split the Difference, um Chris Voss, and uh Great Game of Business, which is the conversation on Yeah, it's it's the model behind open book management.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

Yeah, who's that author again? I can't remember. Um Jack. No.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:28

Jack Stax and Bo Birmingham. Nice. We can grab these from you because we can pop in the show notes too. Yeah. Um okay, what is something you believe in that others would think is insane?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

I'm gonna let Justin go first. I struggle to answer this one here.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:44

Yeah, uh, as it relates to this discussion, uh, culture beats process. Uh, maybe it's not that insane, but uh if you look at the way most people are operating, I I think they might think it's insane. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:54

Yeah, I'd say there'd be some people out there that would possibly Yeah, you know what, and just to elaborate that and all I'm thinking about it, the way we assess our employees, we've got you know something called A players. Um your highest I mean, you look at employees, your most productive employee, if they're if they're poisonous to the culture, you gotta punt them. And and I think that's something that some people might think is insane. You got your highest generating sales guy. I mean, if they're talks to your culture, you gotta get rid of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:25

Yeah, the whole not a fit thing seems really simple in in theory, but when you actually follow it, it can do wonders for your organization. And and hard in a tight labor market, too. Yeah, for sure. Oh, yeah, totally. Um what what's some the most important thing you're looking for in a good construction manager?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:45

The three values. I'd say I'd say ownership. Ownership uh mentality. That's something that you can't, it's hard to train. Right. But uh somebody that will absolutely take accountability for what their their jobs are, what they're responsible for, that that's by far for me number one.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:03

Yeah, yeah, and in addition to the values, it's it's it's interpersonal skills. Uh today with today's labor market and and with the the new generation, and I'm not gonna just call it millennials because I think there's a lot lot of people that aren't millennials that you know the old days of just do what I told you to do because I said do it, it doesn't work anymore. You have got to be able to communicate effectively. Um we didn't talk about this at all today, but like everybody in leadership within the organization attends the Dale Carnegie How to Win Friends and Influence People course. Nice, good. And it's a 10-week course. Um, you know, everybody's gone through. I think we we're putting like five people through a year right now. Um, you know, if you want to learn how to communicate, um, you know, take the course, read the book. Um very impactful.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:56

It is a great book. It's like a staple. Um what's the most important piece of your background that contributes to your success at caliber?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

Oh, I would I would say my time as a fishing guide. At risk of uh yeah, I don't want to spend too long on this, but I dealt with a lot of different personalities and and guests uh that that had to, you know, I had I had to be out there on the fishing boat with them for eight hours at a time and to make sure they had a good time, but I also had to learn how to uh understand and read and cater to different personalities. And uh as is already mentioned in construction, you're dealing with hundreds of different characters and personalities. That's that's helped.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:36

Totally, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:38

Uh passion. Um, passion for construction and and for building people. Um, if you're if you're passionate about something, uh even when the the going gets tough, uh, you're gonna be able to work through those issues. It's when you lack passion that you're going to struggle.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:54

Well, that makes makes uh makes sense for sure. Um, what's the most challenging part of running a construction company? Maybe it probably goes into even Zach's comment.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

Yeah, I the people for sure. Um honestly, it's also what I love about the company and in the industry is the the change. How much change we have to deal with on you know on a weekly, a daily basis, constant change. Um, but I love that it energizes me, and I think that's something caliber does very well at.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:26

Yeah, yeah. Just to add to what Zach's saying is uh I was out with somebody uh who's who's who's he's 70 years old now, he's uh been doing construction for the last 40 years, and you know, asked him the same question. He says, uh, but best part of my job is the people, the worst part of my job is the people.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:42

Yeah, totally. Right. So um with that being said, uh, what's something that you know now that you wish you would have known before you started or joined Caliber?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

Honestly, there's there's nothing really. Um because I know that I'm gonna learn it. Yeah, trial by fire. Uh if there's one thing I'm I'm I mean, that that comes from a perspective of, hey, had I known this, I would have made a different decision and maybe performed better. Um, I don't believe it's beneficial necessarily to know all the answers before you dig into it. And then that it takes away from your ambition and willingness to make mistakes. Um, and uh so I I would I would I would say that I don't really have an answer there. I'm I I know that if there's something I need to learn, I'm gonna be learning on the job.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:31

No, that's good. Yeah, for me it would definitely be strategy, understanding how important strategy and and understanding what your vision is and what your goals are and how you're gonna get there for sure. Uh spent a lot of years just sort of muddling through, you know, just doing have having a owning a job, right? Um, you know, had I known that there was a lot more to it. Totally.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:51

Um yeah. Okay, let's get to the job site. What sir, what are the few top things that you look for on a well-run job site?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

I'm abstaining from this Justin.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:03

Um, so an easy one is is cleanliness. Um another one is noise. Um you can tell a lot about a construction site by the way it sounds. Um, you know, you go into a construction site and radios are blasting and people are yelling, and you know, this, that, and the other thing. Um, it's usually not necessarily a great indicator of how well things are going. Um when you can walk onto a site and and it a well-run site has a sort of a hum to it. Like there's there's noise, there's obviously noise because construction is a noisy thing, but it's consistent. It's not, you know, extremely variable. I mean, take out the times where the jackhammer is running and those sorts of things, but it is consistent. Guys who you guys know what I'm talking about. You true construction guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:49

No, totally. I I I can absolutely picture that. All right. One of my favorite things. What is your most memorable story from the job site?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:00

Some my office job site. I I don't I feel free to edit this out after. Uh so we we've got such a strong love at culture, and there's this this instance where um we had arranged for a photographer to come out and take some pictures. And uh some pictures of uh some headshots of the guys at the office there. And and so this photographer comes out, and uh young photographer, she's got she's got her uh three-month-old baby with her. And um, and the person who had arranged this uh from the office didn't think that was a big problem. She said, full disclosure, I got my baby with me. I can't leave my baby anywhere, husband's working. Is it okay if I bring the baby? And uh our the employee at Caliver is like, yeah, sure, no problem. You know, we solve all our problems, it's easy, we'll just figure it out. The baby shows up and uh with with with the mom and uh they start taking pictures and like okay, we're done in the office, we need to go with the site. And uh, and so we so so the first question that all of us parents in the office are like, hey, well, what's gonna happen when you gotta run around an active job study and you got a three-month-old?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

Um, and this uh the employee was like, Oh, you know what? The the the one who co-coordinated this for us, uh said, you know, you just uh, you know, we'll leave her with the the tradesman or the foreman, the lead foreman out at the front. You can walk around. Don't worry, he he's got lots of lots of kids, he knows how to handle a baby. And so we opted, no, that's not a good idea for obvious reasons. Yeah, I know that. Um, so we ended up uh taking care of the baby all afternoon in the office while mom went out and took pictures of the site. Uh I just I just love that though. Oh, that is a good story. It's still one of my fondest stories.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:39

That's awesome. That's a good story. Yeah, Justin, come on, you got you got I walk into the office that day. I had been out. I walk into the office, all the lights are off, and we we have uh music. Yeah, we have a sonos, uh Sono sound system that that goes throughout the entire office, and I walk in and I hear waves. Gentle waves, and I'm like, what is going on here? Yeah, noise. Uh oh. Um that's great. That is awesome. Um favorite memory, um hard to pick. Uh, I'll pick one from uh last year, uh summertime. I was doing a couple of site visits. I was going from one site to the next, and um we were doing an apartment building and we were pouring a suspended slab. We had a 55-meter um pumper truck pumping the slab. And I'm walking down into to the hole uh on the one side, and and we're we're we're doing the slab on the one side. We've got two concrete trucks, double barreling, like we're we're pouring like tons of concrete that day. On the other side of the site, we've got you know guys doing um their they're they're doing their their trench excavation for the under under slab services, and we've got the form work guys on the one side, and you know, I'm just standing, you know, not under the the boom of the pump, like just beside it, you know, and all that's done under. But anyway, and I'm looking at this, I'm like, this is this is it. This is this is exactly what I wanted to do when I was a kid. Like, if I could have properly visualized it as a kid, um, that would have been it. Like just you know, being responsible for this well-orchestrated construction site, like super memorable. Little tears started just cruising down the just big smile.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:18

I guess I was happy. There's something about like milestone events or just key things when buildings really take shape. You know, you're pouring concrete, you're tilting a wall, you're putting glaze, whatever it happens to be paint on the building, landscaping. And when it all is going, because so much does go wrong in construction, but when there's the moments that it's all kind of coming together, you do kind of sit back and go, Oh man, this is this is the reason why I got into this. This is exactly why I do what I do and keeps me coming every day. There's moments like that, and then there's complete chaos. But uh, I can I can totally that resonates with me a lot. So that's cool. Um, is there anything anybody wants to uh to add to the conversation? Anything uh Justin or Zach that you would want to tell for any future employees or anyone listening to this podcast, you want them to know about you guys or just in general, yeah. Please um add anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:11

No, I I'd say on a personal level here, and if you're if you're interested in caliber, what we're what we're about, just reach out.

unknown 1:11:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:18

Let's have a conversation. Um, you know, we we love to talk about the company, uh, but we we love to to expand that network and learn from others as well, too. I mean, we don't we don't do any of this on our own. So um always looking to build the network here.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:34

Yeah, I I think for me, one of the things that that's really helped me and and and I would encourage you know everybody in business and and I I think you guys are a part of that. That's why we're doing these Site Max podcasts. There's a lot of information out there, and there's a lot of people that have gone before, you know, me, you, everybody here, um, that have learned different things. And you know, if I could say anything uh to to you know the guys coming up the through the ranks, you know, don't be afraid to ask questions. Don't be afraid to put yourself out on the line and say, hey, you know what, how do you do this? What about that? Seek mentorship, be a mentor, you know, be a lifelong learner. And and you know, if you take that approach to your job and what you're doing, you you will succeed for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:17

Absolutely. That's really well said. Guys, it's been fantastic having you on. We will definitely have to do this again uh to check in and see how things are going. Uh, gotta know what uh is happening with the one-page strategic plan. Um, but thank you again. Uh, and uh yeah, we'll talk again soon.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:35

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

Thanks, guys. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:43

Thanks for listening to The Site Visit, a podcast dedicated to leadership in construction with perspective from the job site. If you like the show, please subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, or Google Play. To learn more, check us out online at thesitevisit.com.