ICBA Generals 2024 E1 | Advocacy and Growth in the Modern Construction Era with Chris Gardner, President at ICBA

Discover how construction industry exhibited remarkable resilience during COVID with Chris Gardner, President at ICBA. We'll explore the pivotal safety measures, including innovative wash stations and stringent physical distancing protocols, that enabled construction sites to continue functioning. Learn from the stories of visionary contractors whose leadership ensured that countless families kept receiving paychecks during such uncertain times, showcasing the industry's adaptability and strength.

In this episode, we shine a spotlight on the unique approach of a self-funded construction association. We'll discuss the entrepreneurial spirit that thrives within this community, their unwavering support for trade apprentices through robust administrative services, and their firm stance against discriminatory procurement policies. 

Finally, we turn our attention to the economic challenges facing the construction industry today. Rising costs, tax implications, and the portrayal of careers in construction are just a few of the topics on the agenda. Learn how the incorporation of a chief economist and community-driven initiatives are driving ICBA to foster growth and advocate effectively for its diverse membership base. Tune in for an insightful discussion on how data-driven strategies and robust advocacy are paving the way for a resilient future in construction.

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Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:00

Chris hello sir, it's great to be here. It's a great day. Today. We've got 1,400 people registered for our Meet the Generals in the Owners, so a lot of excitement in the room. I feel like I'm in your house. Well, you know, it's that kind of feeling in construction. We're one big happy family.

Speaker 1: 0:13

I'm in the Chris House of Love of general contractors.

Speaker 2: 0:16

That's right.

Speaker 1: 0:17

So 1,400 people here? Yeah, Wow, that's crazy. And how many exhibitors do we have?

Speaker 2: 0:22

We have 70 in total, 50 general contractors and owners. So owners will be cities, provincial, federal levels of government, and then the other 20 exhibitors will be sponsored.

Speaker 1: 0:34

Welcome to the Site. Visit Podcast Leadership and perspective from construction With your host, James Faulkner. Live off the show floor at ICBA's Meet the Generals 2024. You've been in this position for a while now. Yes, this is year number eight. Year number eight, yes, so how has the last? I know it's a long time, but what are the things that have happened that you didn't expect to happen? How have you navigated those things and sort of how much more wise are you today from those things?

Speaker 2: 1:18

Well, the big thing that was unexpected for everyone was the COVID-19 pandemic.

Speaker 1: 1:21

The C word.

Speaker 2: 1:23

Yeah, that was crazy for everyone and I'll say that the industry responded in a way that was really unbelievable. It was one of the few sectors of our economy that was not shut down and we worked hard with our industry partners and stakeholders to make sure that it wasn't shut down. And at the very beginning, you remember, the provincial health officer said we're shutting down. You know, restaurants and a whole bunch of other sectors of our economy.

Speaker 2: 1:48

The reason why we fought hard for construction is, at the very beginning it was all about distance and being outdoors was being was viewed as being safer than being indoors, because a lot of construction is happening outdoors. So we made the case that, because construction accounts for about 10 percent of our economy, about 250,000 men and women wake up every day and go to construction job sites. Plus then there's the indirect impact through the supply chain. It's a big part of our economy. To turn that off we felt would be crippling and fortunately government officials and the provincial health officer responded positively and construction kept working in British Columbia and that meant a lot of families were able to support themselves and keep those paychecks coming in and important pieces of our infrastructure schools, hospitals, roads, bridges were able to continue to be built so very important for all of us.

Speaker 1: 2:38

So how much did you guys have to advocate for that to keep everything going? I mean sort of how much of a lever length did you have to pull on that?

Speaker 2: 2:48

We had to work hard because at the very beginning there was a lot of nervousness, a lot of uncertainty around COVID and remember, at the beginning it was like, well, someone, for a long while people didn't know anyone who had COVID, but if they did, it was this heightened sense of like. We didn't know how to treat them. There was the whole issue around do we have enough ventilators? That had to be on ventilators. So at the very beginning there were parts of our industry that were advocating for a shutdown and we just felt strongly that that would be the wrong decision and so we worked hard and it wasn't unanimous within our membership. I could call some members and say, chris, I think you're going too far, I think we should be very cautious. Remember, at the beginning we we're going to bend the curve three weeks four weeks.

Speaker 1: 3:26

Oh yeah, bend the curve, that's right, right.

Speaker 2: 3:28

And so it was like, well, I'm not sure if we start shutting it down, like where does that end? And so we took a position and in the end, I think we were. It proved itself to be the right decision. I it proved itself to be the right decision. I mean hindsight's 20-20, but I'm glad we took that position and fought to keep the industry going.

Speaker 1: 3:49

Looking back now, did you feel that part of this was intelligence or a hunch that you've had from listening to other things, and what part of that intersection was you personally thinking what the right thing is to do?

Speaker 2: 4:04

Well, I felt really strongly about the fact that so much of construction was like contractors and construction workers inherently safety is ingrained in their DNA yeah, and so much of the work was happening. So if we said we needed more wash stations, you tell a contractor we need a wash station over there in this corner of the project site. They're going to have that done in a couple hours, yeah, so we're able to respond to challenges very effectively. A lot of the work was happening outside and distance, and then just the fact that you have so many families who rely on those paychecks. I didn't want us to make the mistake of being wrong if we shut it down.

Speaker 2: 4:42

Because, the economic challenge and the data is very clear 50% of Canadian families right now today are living paycheck to paycheck. The affordability challenge in housing, the challenge we're facing in inflation, price of gas, groceries, everything's going up. People are struggling and to take away those paychecks I thought was the wrong thing to do so.

Speaker 1: 5:03

looking back now, you probably must be pretty proud of your decisions you made.

Speaker 2: 5:07

Yeah, we are, and I mean hindsight's 20-20. But listen, the industry responded. I was able to go out and advocate because construction contractors were responding. They were putting in like WorkSafe BC at that time people forget they were going out to a lot of sites and visiting and checking on whether or not workers were adhering to the physical distancing rules, checking to see whether wash stations had been erected properly. So there was a lot of scrutiny and the industry responded. They showed leadership and really they demonstrated to other sectors of our economy how to respond quickly, effectively, efficiently to keep things open, keep our economy moving forward.

Speaker 1: 5:42

That's pretty cool because you know what, even in that time with my company, I had to make those similar decisions and I had a smaller impact than you do. But I think that strength, that strong sense of character, I think doing that right thing. Sometimes people don't see that you're doing that. So some of the membership that we're calling and going hey, chris, you're probably steadfast going. You know what? I just kind of I'm thinking and now when you look back you go wow.

Speaker 2: 6:11

Yes, and I try not to remind those people who called me. You remember you called me and told me to shut it down. I gloss over that.

Speaker 1: 6:19

Yeah, yeah yeah, that's good. I mean, everyone was pretty freaked out and no one knew what they were doing. We're looking at evidence that now everyone's looking back going, everyone made mistakes, et cetera. So good on you for doing that.

Speaker 2: 6:34

So that's like what now, four years ago? That's right, yeah, four years ago, like when I, when I, first started at ICBA. We were, we were well known in the construction industry and, you know, over the last eight years our membership has increased four times four times four times.

Speaker 1: 6:47

So you've increased that four times four times and every, every part of our business.

Speaker 2: 6:52

like we are a construction association, but there's so many elements of the services we provide that are a business and we are competing in the private sector.

Speaker 2: 7:00

Yeah so our group health and dental plan. We have 200,000 people on one of our health and dental plans right now. When I started that number was probably in the 60,000 range Crazy. So that's increased about three times the number of apprentices we sponsor. Icb is the number one sponsor of apprentices and British Columbia we sponsor more apprentices than any union, any company, any association. We're proud of that. We're at about 2,600 apprentices across all the trades. That number has increased four times. We now we've bought a new office. We're now in Surrey. We bought a new office. We're now in Surrey. We bought a floor plate. We've got about 65 employees overall, 55 of them working out of the Surrey office. But then last year we expanded into Alberta and that was very significant. We bought an office space downtown Calgary. Office space in downtown Calgary is about 25% of the cost of our office space in Surrey so it was a great deal Easy for the board to approve that.

Speaker 2: 7:50

But we now have a team of seven working in Alberta, so we've grown in every part of the services that we provide our members, and our size and scale allows us to do more. What I say to our team is that everything we do should be relevant to our members. If we're going to provide a service, it's going to mean something to our members. It's going to help some part of the business be better. Provide a service, it's going to mean something to our members. It's going to help some part of the business be better.

Speaker 2: 8:14

Yeah, and when we advocate for contractors whether it's on a construction issue specifically, or whether it's on a general economic issue we've got to be purposeful and that has to mean something like I don't want to say things that aren't going to move the dial or don't don't mean much to anyone. So that's what what guides us, and so we've been growing fast, and with growth comes opportunity. Also comes some challenges. You've got to scale up your team and you've got to be able to act in a way that you didn't when you were a much smaller platform, but it's very exciting and I'm happy with where we are.

Speaker 1: 8:47

You know, I've got to say that's pretty impressive to do, because you've essentially come into this with a complete entrepreneurial mindset and so early on did people see your vision of this stuff or did it evolve over time? How did you knit this all together? I mean, now you own a building, you own your own property, you own that in Calgary. I mean, a lot of people just keep renting, renting, renting, renting. You've got a different whole model going, calgary. I mean, a lot of people just keep renting, renting, renting, renting.

Speaker 2: 9:13

You've got a different whole model going. Yeah well, so I would say that in this short conversation we're having it, sounds easy.

Speaker 1: 9:19

It sounds like it's a straight line from.

Speaker 2: 9:20

A to B. It wasn't. There was a lot of challenges along the way, and we've got to bring a lot of people with us when we make those types of decisions. First of all, we've got to bring our team with us. Then you've got to bring the board with you, because they're ultimately the folks who we answer to. I go to a board meeting and say here's our forecast for revenue growth, here's the cost pressures we're facing.

Speaker 1: 9:41

And you are on the board too, though. Yes, I am.

Speaker 2: 9:44

But I do for sensitive discussions. At the end of the board meeting I step out and let the board have an in-camera session.

Speaker 1: 9:50

Interesting.

Speaker 2: 9:50

So they can feel free to express opinions that may be different Profanities about you.

Speaker 2: 9:57

Yeah, that's right, and so there's a lot of discipline and rigor in our platform. Our board is composed of owners of companies or senior executives of larger companies, and we're very deliberate about that because we want people in the room who understand it's a business, but decision makers in the room, so folks who feel confident giving myself and our team the advice that we need to be able to to make the right decisions, the best decisions for the platform of the association.

Speaker 1: 10:26

So when it comes to I'm not going to name, name other associations, but when you you know the other ones that you know, we see, etc. Who put on events, what are the main differentiating factors for people who don't really understand and don't dig into the specific value propositions between the different associations? So what is the one thing that you guys stand for? That is that stick-out main differentiator.

Speaker 2: 10:52

Well, I think there's a number of things. So you know I'll start off and say we don't take any money from government. We don't go to government at any level and say we've got a great idea, can you fund it? So we self-fund every single one of our services, every single one of our programs, and we're proud of that. And why do we do that?

Speaker 2: 11:11

Other associations, both within the construction sector and outside, that will take grants and have programs that they're offering and have them be funded by government.

Speaker 2: 11:21

We don't do that, and the reason why we don't do that is because we want to be able to advocate clearly, in a compelling way, with elected officials and sometimes have open conversations.

Speaker 2: 11:31

But sometimes those conversations are frank and say well, you're heading in the wrong direction, this doesn't make sense, we think you should be doing something else. We want to be able to say that without worrying whether next year's grant or check or program that's going to be funded by a check coming from the ministry is going to actually arrive on the mail. Right, and our members are entrepreneurs who are building their business, and no one walks into the office of one of our members and says, from government, here's a check for $500,000. Go do something, or a million dollars. So we want to basically have the same value proposition. We're entrepreneurial in terms of how we look at the programs and services we offer and we want to make sure that we're adhering to the same values as our members are. We're hardworking, getting up every day looking to recruit talent, win business, execute projects and give back to the community. So I think that does separate us.

Speaker 1: 12:27

Which does obviously, is the first letter of the acronym, which is the independent part, and that really you guys are leaning into that and that's what that means. Is that the context of it?

Speaker 2: 12:36

Okay, I'll give you like. We will often not often we will on occasion Go to court to challenge a government policy.

Speaker 1: 12:45

Okay.

Speaker 2: 12:45

So we went to court to challenge the community-backed agreements. We feel it's unfair, it's discriminatory, it's the wrong approach to address the challenges the government says exist in the industry. We believe there's a whole lot more effective and better ways to address those challenges and we think we're being proven out over time, because every single major government-funded infrastructure project in this province is over budget by millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions, in some cases billions of dollars, and every single one of them are behind schedule. So we want to be able to say to government the procurement process is broken. Let's have a conversation about that without worrying about whether they're going to fund something else or doing another part of our business.

Speaker 2: 13:29

We are the largest sponsor of trades apprentices in British Columbia. We take that work very seriously. It's a really important value add for our members. It takes a lot of work off the smaller contractor's plate. We do all the administration, we do all the paperwork, we're tracking all the hours and that's a big, that's a significant sort of administrative burden that if you are a contractor and you employ 20, 30, 40, 50 people and that's 80 of the construction industry um, so we take that burden off the plate. We're proud, proud to do that again.

Speaker 2: 14:00

That's that's a free service we offer our members. And we do that because on the group health benefit side of our business, we've got nearly 200,000 people on one of our health and dental plans and that's what funds a lot of what we do. So we go up to the marketplace providing great value on health and dental plans, our mental wellness plan, all of the health spending accounts and wellness programs that we provide and our mental health program is free. That we provide and our mental health program is free, right. So not only are we not taking money from government to fund our business, our services, our products, but we're also providing a whole raft of services for free, right. Because we think that everything at ICB starts with membership. Membership means something. We've got the lowest membership fees of any construction association in the country and probably pretty well every business association. You're a small contractor and you're employing 20, 30, 40 people. You're joining ICBA for $450. It's very low, yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:00

And if you're a larger contractor. The highest membership fee we have is $1,800. Right, that's it. There's some association that it's five, it's 10, it's 15, it's 20, but we really believe in providing value and that we don't want membership to be a burden or a discussion around any table.

Speaker 1: 15:21

For any one of our members the um, I mean the independent side of things we're seeing. Has the business changed over the years in terms of sort of back deal, backhanded deals, bird dogs, all that kind of stuff, and is that like the old way things are done, or is that still happening, like with I think you know what I mean right, there's sort of it's not going to say the shadiness, but it's a who-you-know business and they're going to get the contracts and that kind of thing. Or is it more a level playing field and that's what you're trying to achieve?

Speaker 2: 15:58

Well, I think on the community benefit agreements, for example. That was a procurement model that the NDP government imposes on certain infrastructure projects. It basically says you know, only building trade certified contractors and workers can work on these projects. The challenge it all sounds nice, but the challenge is a couple of things. First, that's only 15% of the construction workforce in this province. So all of a sudden you're taking 15% of the workers in British Columbia saying you're going to get opportunities to work on these projects. The other 85%, well, that's too bad. You're taxpayers, you're construction workers, but you're out a lot.

Speaker 2: 16:34

We find that offensive. It's discriminatory, it's unfair. And for contractors trying to build their business, they're now frozen out of these opportunities. That's not fair to the entrepreneurs who've been building these businesses and just want nothing more than a fair shot at the work. That's all we're asking for. No one's asking for a special pay. The second thing is the cost to administer these programs is in the millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars. It's not cost effective. So the government's adding another regulatory burden onto the cost of these already expensive infrastructure projects and so it's more costly. They're often reducing the scope of work because they need to find you know if you're going to build a bridge and it's going to have like four or five on-ramps and you realize that you know all these costs and rules and requirements you've layered in are going to cost tens, hundreds of millions of dollars.

Speaker 2: 17:25

we start taking away the off-ramps and package that up in a different project to get within the budget of the original project. So it doesn't make sense. It's inefficient, just in construction generally. Listen, construction has evolved. It's more of a technology story today than it ever has been. If you're a young person looking for an opportunity in technology, look at construction. It's changed the way we design and build buildings. It's an entrepreneurial story. If you're a young person in high school, you want to start a business, think about running a trade and becoming a contractor, starting a contracting business In terms of the sophistication that now runs through the industry, the innovation, the commitment, the training. It's a different industry than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago. So it's more competitive. Owners are searching for value. So, to your point, there are oftentimes when an owner has a great relationship with an excellent contractor and wants to continue working with that contract that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 18:29

It does. Yeah, that's a relationship.

Speaker 2: 18:31

So that happens, but there's a lot. There is the wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Generally you don't see that often. Sometimes you'll get these like the CBA agreement aside. You don't really see it.

Speaker 1: 18:47

Yeah, it's like the opportunity of outcome.

Speaker 2: 18:52

Yeah, I mean, people are looking for value In a positive way though. Yes, people are looking for value Leveling the playing field.

Speaker 2: 18:57

Yeah, they're looking for value and there's a lot of exceptional contractors out there, both at the general contractor and the subcontractor level. You've got opportunities to engage some outstanding providers and services. So you really, if you're annoying, you've got your pick of great contractors. Now, in the last number of years it's been so busy that there's been a challenge with general contractors getting the trades they want to work. So we're trying to lock in trades because it's been so busy. Now the market's cool this year.

Speaker 2: 19:28

You know this is a choppier year than it has been the last four years, probably the most challenging. The reason for that is high interest rates and inflation have done a lot of things. They've increased the financing costs for projects. Yep, there's been pressure because of the shortage of people in construction, upward pressure on wage rates. The cost of materials has increased. So all of that is putting upward pressure on costs.

Speaker 2: 19:52

And so if you're a first-time homebuyer, where this reveals itself in the most obvious way, all of a sudden you're looking at the price of homes going holy cow, like we're going to be saving for the rest of our lives just to get to a down payment. And it's at a crisis proportion the most affordable housing market in Alberta and British Columbia of major centers is Edmonton, which is about it's 30% of the cost of Vancouver, for example. It's still high, it's still high, it's still unaffordable by traditional metrics, but it's far better than Vancouver or Kelowna or Calgary and there's opportunities there. There are. But in Vancouver and the lower mainland housing really is. If you're a young person now and you're 25 or starting off your career, it's a fairly depressing thought about how much you have to save to get into the housing market. Yeah, I mean, it's a depressing thought about how much you have to say to get into the housing world.

Speaker 1: 20:49

Yeah, I mean, it's a depressing thought for people who are completely intentional about their life, not to mention people who are reacting to their life. I mean, there's many people that you come out of high school let's say, an ex-athlete or something like that and suddenly you turn around you're like, wow, I've got a, I got a small family. Now I have to I have to make a change in my life, so to be able to do those things is not very, very simple. I got a question for you. Wow, you have great service. I have to say a little diet coke on the side. Um, before I ask this question, I gotta say congratulations on the energy in here. You can hear it. Oh yeah, that's exciting, it's, it's like it's vibing. Yeah, yeah, you know, you got a popular. Uh, you got a popular place here yeah, no, it's.

Speaker 2: 21:31

Uh, listen, this is what construction is all about. It's an exciting industry. There's lots of opportunity, lots of great leaders, lots of great people, innovators. Uh, you know what's not to like about the?

Speaker 1: 21:41

construction store. So, as we see what, when we talk about the price of property and we're saying this is a choppier year and you see this upward pressure from those different levers materials, permits, interest rates etc. And then the price of labor, what I find interesting is that and maybe you can speak to this when it comes to your apprentice program is that I find that the construction industry so far leads with how much money you can make. That's like the lead message of why you should get into construction, because, hey, you can earn X amount of dollars an hour or 100,000 a year. This is the message, when all that's really doing is pushing that house further away every time, Because once that 100,000 isn't enough, then it's going to be 110, 120, whatever, and that means that that developer then has to 3x or 4x that doll.

Speaker 1: 22:41

So it's interesting how the are there things like the security of the industry or the longevity of the industry, or the fact that it's getting less dirty over time, or the fact that it's a technological boom that we're in in construction? Are those other vectors? And also the entrepreneurial side of things too? You can learn a trade and then you could go start your own business. Are those communication pieces being knitted into the message. Other than that lead, you could just make some money.

Speaker 2: 23:11

The short answer is yes.

Speaker 1: 23:13

It was a long question.

Speaker 2: 23:15

But here's the way I look at it. Part of the reason why oftentimes the conversation starts well how much will I make? Is partly because of affordability how unaffordable things are.

Speaker 1: 23:29

Yeah, that makes sense. It's a good hook.

Speaker 2: 23:32

Yeah. So you've got like, well, if I go and I start a career in construction, like well, what, what?

Speaker 1: 23:38

what do I get?

Speaker 2: 23:39

yeah, what do I get? How much am I going to take home? So? So that's a natural part of the conversation. But there's now a lot more conversations about technology, using technology. So you want to be a project manager the skill set you need there to be able to understand construction schedules, mobilizing materials, equipment, people. What could be more exciting than that? If you are a young person who likes the idea, just think what logistics means. You've got to balance schedules for materials, for people, for equipment, always moving parts on the site. It's very exciting. So that is part of the conversation. I think the other thing, the other interesting thing about where we are right now is so you know, canadians just paid their taxes. You know, april 30th was the deadline. Shortly following that, statistics Canada put out all the data on what people were paying, and so to be in the top 10% of income earners in Canada, you need to make $104,000. Then you're in the top 10%. So I was actually having this conversation with one of our civil contractors.

Speaker 1: 24:49

Is that per household or is that per?

Speaker 2: 24:51

person Per person. Okay, so I was having this conversation with a civil contractor.

Speaker 2: 24:55

He said well, chris, that's ridiculous, that's 60% of the people on our payroll, I know, and so there's a couple of things in there. One, construction is a well-paid undertaking and there's great opportunities in this. The second issue is that we have lost sight of wealth creation in this country, and so if you compare the $104,000, roughly what? $75,000 US dollars? Yeah, $75,000 US dollars doesn't get you 10% of income earnings in the United States, no, and if you're going to be in the top income tax bracket in this country, you're going to start every dollar you make after about $155,000.

Speaker 1: 25:34

It gets pretty ugly yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:36

So certainly over $200,000, you're paying 52%, 3% in British Columbia, every dollar you make out of it. So an economist just pointed out well, that's the same rate as the tax rate in France.

Speaker 1: 25:51

And is that before factoring in paying GST on everything?

Speaker 2: 25:55

Well, so here's the thing it is the same tax rate in France, but France applies that top tax rate to 14 times the average income. We apply it in Canada three times the average income. So every time you hear a politician stand up and say we're going to make the wealthy pay more, the problem is, we define wealthy as top 10% $100,000. You get double income. You're making $200,000 in the lower mainland. How long is it going to take you to save for this $200,000 in the lower mainland?

Speaker 1: 26:24

how much can I take in to save for this? That's before tax. After tax, that's at $120,000. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy Because in order for people to be able to, I know we're getting to to purchase something, to have a chunk of $50,000 that they can pull out tax-free or $75,000 that they can just have access to. The only way they're going to get that is either from getting some bonus at some point or they've got some family inheritance.

Speaker 2: 26:59

Typically, that's where it's coming from. Yeah, and it really is. If you are fortunate enough to have parents who own their own home or have other financial means, that's effectively what's happening for a lot of those pet homebuyers it's the bank of mom and dad who are coming to the rescue, right, but that is changing.

Speaker 1: 27:15

A lot of those dollars are going to be coming out of that generation, like a lot of it are going to be coming out of that, yeah, out of that generation, like a lot of it, and it's going to be a huge windfall. Yes, so that's going to be a good thing. Yeah, it's going to be a good thing, hopefully. Yes, so what are some of the things that you know? Here we are 2024. We're at this fantastic event you've got here. What are the next things? You have? Your, you seem like a very laser focused sniper when it comes to your entrepreneurial endeavors within your position. So what are the? What are the things you have your sights set on in the next, let's say, 24 months?

Speaker 2: 27:48

well, for us it's all about growth because and growing in a purposeful way so that we can become, we can maintain our relevancy um, so we're not growing for the sake of growth. We grow our group health benefits business so we can add value. We have a better ability to get better pricing from carriers to bigger our platform to offer more unique services. On the apprenticeship side, the more we can scale up sponsoring apprenticeships for contractors, the more we can return in terms of bursaries for those apprentices and the more we can interact with other stakeholders to talk about the things that will make sponsoring apprentices and the apprenticeship program work more effectively. The larger our membership, the more relevant we are. When we advocate, we go to government, we say you know, icba has 4,000 members of clients. We are the largest construction association in the country. Like, those things mean something.

Speaker 2: 28:43

Politicians say okay, what are they saying? If they say something, let's pause and think about what they're saying. That's the position they want us to always be in. That's why last year we hired our first chief economist. We have a chief economist on staff, john Finlayson, very well known in economic circles and business circles in British Columbia. He was a former director of the Bank of Canada and he's with the Business Council for a long time now. He's with us, and having someone of that depth and expertise allows us to advocate in ways. When we talk about competitiveness, productivity construction, you know what we're saying is more compelling because it's grounded in data. I don't subscribe to the view that let's just get up and shout a message. Right, it's got to be a relevant message and it's going to be based in data, and so it's gonna be. It's gonna be a fact-based here's. Here's why this government policy that we're thinking is not going to work, and here's why what we're recommending would be more effective Is the apprenticeship program?

Speaker 1: 29:43

is the opportunity for sponsorship for just to sponsor the apprentice, or obviously it's that. But is there an overarching sponsorship for the program itself?

Speaker 2: 29:56

Well, there's a couple of things For the actual employer they are you know they're training apprentices, so we a couple of things For the actual employer.

Speaker 1: 30:02

They are training apprentices.

Speaker 2: 30:04

So we do all of that and we also provide bursaries. But for members who come to us and say, well, how do I help? One of the things we're doing we're about to launch an ICBA foundation.

Speaker 2: 30:16

And we're going to basically take everything we do on the community giving side and put it under the foundation. So we give away about $200,000 in bursaries a year to apprentices. We're going to enhance that we have. We've endowed the Hochstein Fellowship at the Beattie School of Business. That was to recognize our predecessor, phil Hochstein, who was with ICBA, led ICBA for 30 years, and that fellowship at the Beattie School of Business is it's all about free enterprise, growing the economy.

Speaker 2: 30:47

So those are the types of things that we go to members and say, hey, can you support this initiative, or here's an opportunity to get involved outside of what you would normally do. So yeah, so we're keen on the. We just recently announced a new initiative with the Beattie Luminaries, which is a community charitable giving effort undertaken by Ryan Beattie to people from challenging backgrounds who were excelling in academics and to give them an opportunity to go to not worry about tuition. When they went to post-secondary education he expanded that to single mothers who were looking to enhance their educational training and now he's taken another step and broadened that to the trades. So we're going to be working with BD Luminaries to get 500 young people pursuing their career in the trades, scholarships and bursaries to support their training at technical colleges across BC.

Speaker 1: 31:48

That's pretty exciting. That's pretty amazing, yeah, yeah. So I mean, I would think that the growth is going to inherently happen from you doing these kinds of things right, because people just get behind you more and say you know what? It's $450 a month. This is like a no-brainer. I can be part of all of these things. Do you find that, when you're sending out communications, is your sense that people are reading everything, or is your sense that people are so busy, they kind of read a few things here and there?

Speaker 2: 32:14

Well, we talk about this all the time. So we track and we send out a member email. So every quarter, let's say, we send out two member emails a quarter, roughly six, seven a year. So what's the open rate and what drove members to open up an email that came in with this subject line versus that subject line? So we track all that.

Speaker 2: 32:36

What I would say is that people are busy, contractors are busy. They're not looking to open up another email and read through five or six things. We try and make sure that every time we send something out, we've got something that they're going to want. I think we do a pretty good job, but we can do a better job. There's always ways to improve. People are busy. And the other thing I would say is it goes beyond emails. No one's looking to join another association. There's no contractor, no entrepreneur that wakes up and says, hmm, which construction association should I join today? And if you want to join a construction association, there's actually a lot of people that say to me well, why are there so many? You've got every single part of the industry has an association Right Electrical, mechanical, concrete, road builders. Then there's us. There's other provincial associates.

Speaker 1: 33:32

You go down the list, but yours is a more generalist kind of a.

Speaker 2: 33:35

We are yes, which helps? Yeah, and I think for the broad sweep. I think that's attractive?

Speaker 1: 33:40

What is the mix of subs versus GCs, developers, et cetera?

Speaker 2: 33:45

The subcontractors would be a much larger proportion.

Speaker 1: 33:47

Just because there's more types.

Speaker 2: 33:48

There's a lot more of them, so I'm going to say 80, 90, 90 percent are going to be subcontractors. Right, we have a lot of suppliers, but just of the construction contractors, the general contractors, would be a smaller number, fewer of them, more subcontractors. Then we'll have a group of suppliers, so folks who supply the industry, all kinds of people.

Speaker 1: 34:11

Cool. So anything else that you can think of besides growth? Is there one thing you're like oh, I was thinking about that the other day. Maybe I should be doing that. Is there something else you can think of, or am I putting you on the spot?

Speaker 2: 34:23

No, listen, we're actually having the next two days our senior teams getting together to talk through our entire business plan where we're heading. So this is topical. You know, I challenge our team all the time. Is what we're doing relevant and meaningful? And if it is, we will grow. If we can find value, if we can find ways to put out a service or a product in most cases for free that someone's going to say this will help my business in some way. It'll take a task off our desk, it'll help, you know, solve a challenge or a problem. We get a lot of incoming inquiries about building codes, worksafe, bc, government regulation, procurement you just name it and so we also want to respond quickly to those types of inquiries as well, so that we're on it and we're going to get back to you today or tomorrow, but we're going to respond quickly.

Speaker 1: 35:20

You know I see you after speaking with you today or tomorrow, but we'll, we'll respond quickly. You know I see you after speaking with you today. You know it's when we've. When I first interviewed you, I think this was maybe four years ago. I think it's just a huge. I mean, I don't know how this will sound to you, but it's huge. You seem so focused and so. Not that you weren't before, but it's just. Do you feel different? Because you feel totally on the ball to me? Well, that you weren't before, but well, I, I think eight years in.

Speaker 2: 35:46

Yeah, I understand the platform, I understand the sector. I, you know, I think I've got a good sense of where we're, why we're doing what we're doing, how we're doing it and where we're going. So it took me a while to figure all that out. I think I figured out.

Speaker 1: 35:58

The reason I say that is because I think people really want to listen to you and I think that I can totally see this sort of stage presence monthly keynote of some sort with these topics Pretty cool. I think you should totally do that Because people will. I think you've got to. Your voice holds a lot of weight.

Speaker 2: 36:15

Okay, well, thank you for that. Anytime you want me on, I'm here. Thank you for that. Anytime you want me on, I'm here, ready to go.

Speaker 1: 36:19

Well, congratulations on this. I wish you the best of luck on the show.

Speaker 2: 36:26

Thank you, it looks awesome. Everyone here is pretty vibed, yeah Well, thank you for coming and participating. Thank you for inviting us. I really appreciate it Well thank you, chris.

Speaker 1: 36:30

Great Thank you. Okay. Well, that does it for another episode of the site visit. Thank you for listening. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube. You can also sign up for our monthly newsletter at sitemaxsystemscom slash the site visit, where you'll get industry insights, pro tips and everything you need to know about the site visit podcast and Sitemax, the job site and construction management tool of choice for thousands of contractors in North America and beyond. Sitemax is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building.