the Site Visit

VRCA CLF 2024 | “LIVE RECORDING” | Discussion panel | The Brand of Construction

May 06, 2024 James Faulkner
VRCA CLF 2024 | “LIVE RECORDING” | Discussion panel | The Brand of Construction
the Site Visit
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the Site Visit
VRCA CLF 2024 | “LIVE RECORDING” | Discussion panel | The Brand of Construction
May 06, 2024
James Faulkner

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Together with Chris Atchison, President at BCCA, Geoffrey Beukema, VP at Houle, and Paul Demeule, VP of Modern Niagara, James Faulkner delves into everything you've ever wanted to know about the construction industry. They explore important topics such as:

  • How to attract people to the industry?
  • Strategies for increasing brand awareness in construction.
  • Ways to enhance the appeal of a career in construction.

They take a heartfelt look at the misconceptions faced by those who construct our daily realities. The conversation travels from the pride of raising monumental structures to the urgent need for the industry to echo its significance within the community. They weave through tales of personal travel and experiences, threading a narrative that connects the journey of construction professionals with the landscapes they transform.


PODCAST INFO:
the Site Visit Website: https://www.sitemaxsystems.com/podcast
the Site Visit on Buzzsprout: https://thesitevisit.buzzsprout.com/269424
the Site Visit on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-site-visit/id1456494446
the Site Visit on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5cp4qJE5ExZmO3EwldN1HH

FOLLOW ALONG:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thesitevisit
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesitevisit

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Send us a Text Message.

Together with Chris Atchison, President at BCCA, Geoffrey Beukema, VP at Houle, and Paul Demeule, VP of Modern Niagara, James Faulkner delves into everything you've ever wanted to know about the construction industry. They explore important topics such as:

  • How to attract people to the industry?
  • Strategies for increasing brand awareness in construction.
  • Ways to enhance the appeal of a career in construction.

They take a heartfelt look at the misconceptions faced by those who construct our daily realities. The conversation travels from the pride of raising monumental structures to the urgent need for the industry to echo its significance within the community. They weave through tales of personal travel and experiences, threading a narrative that connects the journey of construction professionals with the landscapes they transform.


PODCAST INFO:
the Site Visit Website: https://www.sitemaxsystems.com/podcast
the Site Visit on Buzzsprout: https://thesitevisit.buzzsprout.com/269424
the Site Visit on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-site-visit/id1456494446
the Site Visit on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5cp4qJE5ExZmO3EwldN1HH

FOLLOW ALONG:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thesitevisit
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesitevisit

Speaker 1:

So here we are. How are you?

Speaker 2:

doing today? How was the drive up? It was great. Came up last night, beautiful drive it was Can everybody hear him yeah, everything's good.

Speaker 1:

Okay, all right. How are you doing, chris?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, drive up was great. Left Victoria this morning Made it here in no time. It was awesome. Great drive up and, like you say, lots of construction.

Speaker 1:

All right, paul, how are you doing? I mean Jeff, jeff, sorry, jeff, how are you doing? Great start, great start. Yeah, that's how it is.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, no, we came up last night, me and my wife, and then we had a strategy session all day with the VRCA and I feel like I missed the wardrobe memo. I think I need to be wearing a sport jacket or something here.

Speaker 1:

Well, did we do the axe throwing this year? We didn't do the axe throwing, I was trying to do the construction thing right?

Speaker 4:

No, no, it's perfect.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Site. Visit Podcast, leadership and perspective from construction With your host, james Falkner.

Speaker 4:

Business as usual as it has been for so long now that it goes back to what we were talking about before and hitting the reset button. You know you read all the books, you read the emails, you read scaling up.

Speaker 1:

You read good to great. You know I could go on. We've got to a place where we found the secret serum.

Speaker 2:

We found the secret potion. We can get the workers in. We know where to get them. Once I was on the job site for a while and actually we had some extra concrete and I ordered like a Korean-Finnish patio. Oh fun, did you say? Chill these days. I was down in Dallas and a guy just hit me up on LinkedIn out of the blue and said he was driving from Oklahoma to Dallas to meet with me because he heard the Favourite Connect platform on your guys' podcast Home. It crush it and love it and we celebrate these values every single day. Let's get down to it.

Speaker 1:

Let's get down to it, okay. So can we have everyone's attention for a little bit here, because it's pretty loud, right, you guys feel it's pretty loud, we can be louder, you can be louder, okay, you can, okay. So let's just talk about the brand of construction and what we mean about this. So one thing I think we need to look at is that poster on the left-hand side here. So this builder's life is what we're trying to portray out there in the world, because we don't think the world actually understands construction and the opportunity of construction and it has a lot of misconceptions. Do you guys all agree with that A hundred percent? Okay, great.

Speaker 1:

So do you think it would be apropos to classify everybody who is not in construction as the dwellers or the occupiers? Those are the ones that get to enjoy everything that everybody gets to build. They're the dwellers or the occupiers. Those are the ones that get to enjoy everything that everybody gets to build. They're the dwellers. Let's just call them the dwellers. This is the outside world. So let's just talk about the dwellers for a minute. Do the dwellers really understand construction? What do they think about it? So I got a bunch of questions here. So let's go to the old mobile phone. All right, so the first one is let's go around the panel here for a second. So do you think the outside world has a congruent idea with the inside world of construction? So what they all think out there in the world, the dwellers, versus us, the people inside, maybe? Why don't we start with you?

Speaker 2:

Sure, I don't think they do. Construction is one of the best careers you can have for opportunity. You know, if you learn, work hard and keep at it, it's almost an unlimited opportunity, much better than most other industries. And it's a lot of fun too. It's great people, great work environment and you get to leave lasting monuments behind things like this hotel or new St Paul's Hospital or whatever it may be right. You can look back on your career and say I contributed to that and it's very satisfying.

Speaker 1:

Right, okay, so there's the I built something kind of thing, the pride around building something. Okay, chris, what do you think?

Speaker 3:

I think, to answer your question, the outside world generally has no idea what we do. I think that a lot of what is built, whether it be roads or hospitals or schools or apartment buildings, I think all of that is taken for granted by the general public, and so I think that we, as the builders of British Columbia and Canada, and anyone involved in the construction industry, has a greater role to play in amplifying what it is we actually do to play, in amplifying what it is we actually do, how important we actually are, because the built environment allows us to enjoy absolutely everything around us, and whether that's for living, for recreation, for transportation, we are an essential part of everyone's day-to-day life, and I think a lot of that is taken for granted, if not diminished, by the dwellers, as you call them.

Speaker 3:

They are utilizing what we build, and so that aspect of what we do needs to be no pun intended but bridged, and we need to continue to advocate for the work that's being done in order that more the common folks in our society can understand how integral, how important it is to build British Columbia.

Speaker 1:

Great, okay. So, jeff, let me ask you this for a second. So do you think that there is the whole forest from the trees kind of thing, like we're so in it, we don't know how we look to the outside world? Would you say that is an incongruency that can happen because we're so busy.

Speaker 4:

I think you know, I think a few years ago, like 25 years ago, that was definitely true. It's not as bad today as it was 25 years ago, so that's a thing of the past.

Speaker 4:

It is a thing of the past, but I do believe we've got a long ways to go yet. You know, there's a lot of very, very amazing things about construction other than just the financial aspect. Like, you can make a lot of very, very good money in construction, but you know, at the end of the day, we can be proud of some amazing projects that we are building legacy projects that will last, you know, hundreds of years. Projects that will, you know, help a person who's, you know, struggling with cancer. They can go to a facility that we've built. So I think we can always do better, right, and I think we need to do a really good job of marketing that and telling our stories about all of the different facets of construction.

Speaker 1:

So when you think of the, do you think people really get the camaraderie and the feeling and the focus that everybody has on a job site, like when the general public drives by, like I do this every day, I drive down Nelson Street and I see the butterfly building going up and you see all that stuff going on and all the general public thinks is that's slowing down my traffic, it's getting in the way. And the reality is, is that everybody that hive that tribe in there of multiple people coming in the focus they have in order to make that thing so beautiful and so great? Do you think the outside world understands that or do they care at all?

Speaker 2:

I think they kind of understand it. I think that it's the trades are often, you know, not given their due for the amount of skill and the quality of the work involved, right? So like, a landmark building like that does not go up without really good tradespeople, a landmark building like that does not go up without really good tradespeople. And so people you know sometimes look down on the trades and say, well, I'm a doctor, I'm a lawyer, I'm this, that and the other. You know, the skilled trades should have more respect because they do great work. Like, look at the Vancouver skyline, right. Look at all the amazing buildings, things like the BC Place roof, you like, um, the BC place roof. You know hospitals, the butterfly building. You know, it's all, it's all, it's all because of our skilled trades people.

Speaker 1:

It is so um. So, chris, let me ask you this Um, what are some of the stereotypes that posters like this, for instance? What are the things we got to knock down that you think are like? Just give me like salient points, things that people have said to you over the years. Just give me a few of those, maybe some from each of you. Just jump in anytime you want.

Speaker 3:

You know I think Jeff mentioned before that there's kind of a transition point in construction. That probably happened 25 or 30 years ago, when construction was deemed to be unsafe, and that's still a stereotype that I think still exists today, even though I think it can be demonstrated that construction is incredibly safe nowadays, in spite of the risks that are involved and the precautions that are taken. There's a tremendous amount of investment made in the safety of all workers on job sites and I think, if you just flash forward to today, where construction is ahead of other sectors when we talk about things like psychological safety and you know those types of things would be unheard of a generation ago in construction. So I think safety is one area where people still look at construction as being unsafe. I think people still would consider construction to be a dirty job, to be a heavy job.

Speaker 3:

Okay, the dirty job thing for sure A heavy job, for sure that it's only suitable for white men that can handle the job, which are all stereotypes that we're dismantling every day, and it's for people that again a stereotype, not a truth is. That it's for people who can't succeed in a different professional career that's taken through other academic channels, which are all tremendously unfair myths that I think we're dismantling every day.

Speaker 4:

What do you go for? It go, yeah, like I was talking to. You know one of the senior people at Ellis Dawn today, craig Enns yeah, and he was mentioning that. You know he was telling a story about how he lets people know he's in construction and their automatic response is oh, what ditches are you digging and this sort of thing.

Speaker 4:

I don't think people realize actually, the amount of different types of jobs that are in construction. You know from Revit and technicians and BIM technicians and surveying, and you know there's a ton of office jobs. It's not just, you know, sweeping up a job site. So you know the diversity of jobs that are available in construction is amazing and I think we do need to do a better job of advertising that as well.

Speaker 1:

So what do you think of the paradigm of a lot of people think it's like the old boys club or the guys club or a job site's like Sunday football. But this is the old days, this is the old. I'm just saying that this is. These are the things that the dwellers think about. We don't because we're in it so because we don't want to think about that, because we see, like I, you know, I'll go to a job site every day. I see a complete, diverse workforce, I see men and women working together and it's different than what everybody used to think. But you have to heal that wound over time and it has to get filled with some hopefully no scar tissue. But you still have that going on. So one thing, that one observation I had, you know, doing a little research before this is I had this girl say to me I said so you know what's the opportunity for women in construction? She goes well, they got all the crappy jobs because that's what they see. So this is what they see. It doesn't mean it's real, it's what they see. So perception is everything to most people. So it's just like what you were saying is that when you have the people sweeping up on the job site. That's not what construction jobs are. It is a job in a construction, but that's not what that is. When we see technology moving forward and building and building and building, what we see is construction getting less dirty every day, because it's not a dirty job anymore. It's always going to be to some degree.

Speaker 1:

So what are some of the other things that maybe, chris, you were talking about, like the psychological side of things? You know people. This work is definitely very difficult. It's hard. You have to, especially if you look at project managers and project coordinators. All they do is solve problems all day. The minute any contract is signed, it changes Like almost day one. The schedule changes, money changes Change, orders happen. I mean, it's a nightmare to a lot of these guys, right? So I just said it right there. A lot of these guys see, I got caught with that, so do you notice that a lot in terms of language as well, there's a lot of we say guys a lot.

Speaker 2:

No, we're, we're working to to change that Like you know, we, we uh, I have uh on the modern Niagara team team have lots of women in leadership positions, project managers, four persons, safety managers working in the shop, across all the positions in the company. And the thing about it being dirty is people probably don't realize about half of our pipe is built in a fab shop in extremely clean environment and shipped to site from there, right. So things have changed a lot through technology like um. You know what jeff mentioned around bim and vdc and that sort of stuff. So it's it's a very different industry from what it was even 10 years ago yeah.

Speaker 1:

So when you're saying that a lot of stuff is already you know I got prefabrication is that going to change a lot of things?

Speaker 2:

it's we do as of it as we can and we always look to do more. Because you're building it in a controlled environment climate-controlled, higher quality, better productivity, Because our workers are in a clean, warm, heated fab shop versus being on site where it's pissing rain at times, right, yeah.

Speaker 4:

It's a lot more safe as well. Safety is a critical aspect of prefabrication, right, yeah, yeah, it's a lot more safe as well. Safety is a critical aspect of prefabrication, right, you're building at, you know, lower heights rather than building up in the air and in a controlled environment. I don't know if Paul mentioned that, but safety is a big part of it. You know, you eliminate a lot of safety risks with prefabrication and construction.

Speaker 1:

Can you maybe speak a little bit to the um? Would you say that the world of construction and the people that show up on a job site is kind of like a tribe. It's a tribe that operates within a city, like when you see a job happening. This is a whole other thing going on that no one understands. It's like if you came into the Amazon and you come through a tree clearing and you see a bunch of people and you don't know what the hell they do. Is it kind of like that to the outside world?

Speaker 4:

Go ahead, Chris.

Speaker 3:

Well, I was just going to say I think we can overcomplicate it. I think that this is one of the fundamental things about construction that once you're in it, you understand how it works. Right. It takes time. It's like walking into a law office or walking into a food service industry for the first time. You might not have any idea how it works, but the skilled professionals that are in construction, they can figure out those contracts, they can figure out those schedules, they can figure out the flow of work that needs to occur in order to get some magnificent structures built, some amazing infrastructure built. That's the nature of what we do and that's you know.

Speaker 3:

I think that that is part of the, this aura of construction. That is simple, that it's for the folks that are not capable of doing things that go into this. In fact, that's part of what we need to continue to hammer on. It's no pun intended, but pun intended that we need to continue to break down those myths that the people involved in building these projects are fully capable, they understand what's going on, they're highly sophisticated, highly evolving, highly adaptive and they're to be admired for this type of work that they're able to do. They show up on job sites and just fall in order. They know what's going on because they are mentored, they are told, they are instructed, they're versed in what happens and there's a rhythm and routine to everything that goes on. And that's a tremendous accomplishment and a tremendous sense of pride that we should be showcasing our industry.

Speaker 1:

I think we've seen over the years of you know since I'll say the C word, the COVID word. Since then we've seen sort of the rising up of the managerial class, a lot of power struggles going on within companies and it seems as though construction that was not able to happen. Rising up of the managerial class, a lot of power struggles going on within companies and it seems as though construction that was not able to happen. Construction has still stayed very, very stern and solid in terms of its hierarchy of orders and what has to be done because of safety and because of procedure. It's very similar to how it's akin to, but not quite as the same. As like a military kind of thing, it has to be a certain way, otherwise missions don't get accomplished.

Speaker 1:

So what would you say to people who say things like the blue collar worker? Is that a term that is just totally done? Now? It should be. It should be Because that doesn't just cover construction, that covers industrial as well. Right, that whole blue collar name badge on the shirt we've all seen it and the blue typeface. So that whole blue collar thing? The dwellers let's talk about the dwellers again for a second. Do the dwellers consider everyone here a blue collar. Is that what they think?

Speaker 3:

Well, yeah, going back to the beginning of the conversation, I would say that most dwellers who aren't putting their heads up to take a look around to admire the work that's being done in the built environment around them probably have that stereotype, and I think I agree that blue collar is a dismissive, almost derogatory term to be used when you're talking about the high opportunity occupations that exist in construction.

Speaker 4:

Well, it just isn't true, right? You know, the reality is, construction is pretty sophisticated, requires extremely smart people doing a lot of highly technical. You know jobs and projects and even like different positions. So, yeah, it's a stereotype, but it's not really reality anymore.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2:

I think too it doesn't. It dismisses the opportunity in construction, because a lot of us at the leadership level in the industry started off as a blue-collar worker right. I started off as a tradesperson when I was 20 years old and now I run a business unit right, and the opportunity is there and it's you know, it's one of the best industries in the world for that.

Speaker 1:

You know, the reason I bring that up is because you know I've now been in construction for 12 years, okay, and I'm in a technologist in construction, my whole company is in construction and we go to job sites to train people how to use technology. So what I would say, and the reason I bring up the blue collar thing, is because I think these stereotypes just like this ad does here, which is great stereotypes just like this ad does here, which is great because what we have to do is, when I have seen examples of, when I'm talking to educators, of people who go into high schools and do trades presentations, and the emails that they get back from some of the parents saying, why are you saying my kids shouldn't go to university that we have to change. And I think obliterating this whole blue-collar image is something we need to do, because that will open up Pandora's box for everyone to see that technology and construction is the last bastion of opportunity. Think about it. What's left? Everything else? Cameras are as good as they can get Videos, as good as they can get your iPhone. What was your last update on your iPhone? What did they say it could do? Oh, maybe you didn't. Your buddy who had an Android was able to not see a blue bubble.

Speaker 1:

I mean, a lot of this stuff is barely scratching the surface of progression. But now you think of the innovation in construction. We are going from having people being dirty, spraying shotcrete on a wall to them sitting in a clean environment with joysticks and they get to spray it from a screen or from VR. We're seeing an amazing opportunity of where things are now. So what I say is to all of you who have friends, who have their kids take a look, get them to take a look at construction, and when you're having your martinis, I'll tell you what universities aren't looking so good these days. I don't know about you guys. Have you seen the news? I don't know about you guys. Have you seen the news? So I don't know. And the water cooler at some of these corporations is not so exciting either. So what do you guys say to that?

Speaker 3:

Well, you know, I totally agree and I think, going back to what we were talking about with regards to the brand of construction, I think when we're talking to kids in high schools, or we're talking to kids coming out of university without a clue of what they want to do, I think when we are able to talk to them about the opportunities for technology, I think when we're talking to women who may not have been considering construction, to talk to them about how the culture is changing, when I think we're talking to people who just want to have a good paying job, that is a means to an end, so that they can enjoy a lifestyle in British Columbia that is going to get them outdoors on weekends and evenings. I think that every question that comes to construction, we need to be in a position to say yes, you can, like if you're a woman, if you're a techie, if you're an outdoors person, if you are a person who's interested in the trades or management, yes, you can in construction. That is the simple. It's going to take a while, but the way we need to shift our brand is to be able to say yes, you can to every person that comes to us.

Speaker 3:

If you're a new Canadian that is coming with credentials that are only recognized in a foreign country and they ask can I come to Canada and work in construction in a foreign country? And they ask can I come to Canada and work in construction? We need to get to a point where we say, yes, you can. And I believe that about anyone, any parent, any teacher who's mentoring a kid or giving them career advice if they say, can I do that in construction, yes, you can. And to me, if we can solve that crack, that nut, that is going to open up so many doors for people to just feel welcome when they want to pursue an opportunity in construction. Because, let's face it, we're competing against so many other sectors that have labor shortages, so many other countries that have labor shortages in construction, so we need to get better at attracting them and saying yes to people who want us. What did you say?

Speaker 4:

Jeff, I think Nice yeah, I don't know how I follow that up, but you know, I think you know a lot of this is cultural, right.

Speaker 4:

It starts at a grassroots level. We really need to be doing a lot of work with the kids in schools and you know a lot of people say, well, we've got to start in high school. I believe we've actually got to start sooner than that. We've got to start, you know, when kids are in. You know grade 2, 3, and 4 and exposing them to job sites. You know, maybe not running them on a job site, but having. You know like we've got a situation at a project we're doing on the island where we bring the kids to the job site and they run through different little sections of all the different trades and they can try things out. And we need to do a better job with parents as well. You know advocating for the construction industry and you know a story somebody told me today construction affects every facet of our life. People don't actually realize, when Elon Musk goes to Mars, what construction is involved in that.

Speaker 3:

You can't go to.

Speaker 1:

Mars without who's building Mars?

Speaker 4:

Who's building it right when you go to Mars, construction has to be involved. That's not my Like. I'm stealing that story, but it's a very relevant story and technology is also a big part of that as well.

Speaker 1:

That's good. Can I get a show of hands for a second? I want to do a visual poll here. Where's Craig? Where's Craig? Larkin's the whistler, where is he? Okay, can I just see a show of hands for a second here? When we've seen a lot of things going on in the world now we see how culture is affecting everything, can I just see a show of hands?

Speaker 1:

Who thinks that we've lost our way in terms of being resilient, not in this room, but in general with most people in the world? Are we resilient in the Western world? Can I see a show of hands of a yes, we are resilient. Okay, how about? No, we're not that resilient. And this is everyone else. This is not you people here. This is the rest of the world that you guys build everything for.

Speaker 1:

Would you say? They're all a little soft out there. Is that a yes, okay, I think the theme is yes. So what I would say here is that everyone here needs to communicate in their communities that construction is an example of resilience. You cannot get through a build, you cannot get through the problem-solving, you cannot do construction unless you are tough in the mind, and being tough in the mind comes in many different facets. So, paul, maybe can you just talk a bit about the toughness that people need to be mentally, and it doesn't matter male, female, woman, man, whatever you want to call it, whatever you want to call people, it's not label it but at the same time, do you have an example of how you have to be tough in the mind to get through in construction?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think construction's very challenging, you know, mentally at times, right, there's always a lot of moving parts, there's always deadlines, there's always budget challenges and there's often constructability challenges, and you work with a group of large stakeholders so there's the people challenges too, right. So you're never short on challenges. And I would say any of my team over there, like Gavin's, our regional superintendent, he goes to multiple job sites a day and has to manage several hundred tradespeople, right, and so there's challenges to that. That's not easy, not an easy job, no, you know. But he's resilient and you know it's part of the challenge of construction. You know it's not easy but rewarding, and you do have to be resilient, for sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's kind of like mountain climbing right, you're trying to find the next peak, but you don't know what the weather's going to be like on the north face. Yeah, you know, jeff, what do you got for us on that?

Speaker 4:

Well, look, the reality is in construction, there's issues that come up minute by minute, every single day. We've got to be solution oriented. Um, most people in construction are that way. And when you talk about resilience, um, I mean you just look at what happened during COVID everything shut down, it did but not construction.

Speaker 4:

We've you know, we had, you know, advocates at the BCCA, at the VRCA, advocating the government finding solutions, and we all went to work at the end of the day and we built critical buildings and that just shows how resilient the construction industry is.

Speaker 3:

Chris, yeah, no, I think that's a perfect example that Jeff gives about our response during COVID.

Speaker 3:

But I would say the constant resiliency that exists in construction, the constant resiliency that exists in construction, I think as we forge that next chapter of what our brand is going to be, it's going to force everyone on sites to continue to toughen up even more, and that's challenging yourself or your own perceptions If people belittles themselves and calls it a blue collar job or it's the only job that they could do because they couldn't get into university.

Speaker 3:

I think we, as champions of construction, need to also be strong about construction's place in the world and the role of construction's workforce in building the economy. So I think, as we champion ourselves on job sites, protect those around us on job sites, we also have to look out for the industry in which gives us these opportunities and just be aware that that resilience starts with us and every person on a job site has worth and they need to be able to stand up for that worth on a project and in society, whether they're on job site or at home, trying to justify what they do to families and friends and communities, because we need to be our best ambassadors.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I like that. That's great. So, jeff, let me ask you this when you were saying that we need to convince the parents, do you think at the school nights, rather than inviting all the kids, why don't we invite all the parents and tell them how much money their kids could make and how much opportunity they could have?

Speaker 4:

Why don't?

Speaker 1:

we do that? Why don't we have cocktail hour with the parents and say, look, look at what Jessica can do? Did you think she could do this? No, you didn't. Well, she can, you know.

Speaker 2:

Here's something I would say is take the parents on a site tour of Royal Columbian Hospital or New St Paul's Hospital and you'll find the technicality of the installation is impressive, it's not dirty and you know you can see it all come together and then the skill really shows through, right. And most people just don't see that, because when you go to a hospital you don't see a mechanical room, you don't see an electrical room, you just see a patient room and there's a lot there, right.

Speaker 1:

So this is our last point, because I know everyone wants to have a good time. Blah, blah, blah, we get it. Whistler's amazing, it's an amazing room. So the last question is often when I say, how do we communicate the brand of construction, how do we communicate the opportunity? What I hear a lot is well, we can say, somebody can make over $100,000 a year, but you're going to hear from David Allison tomorrow that what connects with people is aligning with people's values. And let's just go around the table here. What are some other things that can add to the meaning vacuum that most people have in their world these days other than I can just make some money. What are those things? And it could be like some more altruism there. Maybe it could be building something for others, or status or contribution. Maybe, jeff, do you have some ideas there?

Speaker 4:

I'll just start. You know I've talked to you guys about this a little bit, but for me, you know, it's more than just money. You know a little story and I've told this to you guys Years ago. You know, when I was a little story and I've told this to you guys Years ago, you know, when I was a little kid, my dad drove me by Expo 86, and he kind of laughed at all the workers building Expo 86, and he says, yeah, that's going to be you one day, working in the rain.

Speaker 4:

Fast forward 20 years and I was managing a hospital out in Clearwater and I took my parents for a tour and my dad looked at me and he says I can't believe you're. You know, you're involved in building a hospital. This is amazing and I think for me that's one of the key things is getting to be involved in amazing projects that are going to last a lifetime, and whether that's, you know, having people being treated in health care or finding, you know, having a place where people can live, you know, having people being treated in health care or finding having a place where people can live, you know, and raise their families, we're integrally a part of that, like we were doing that and I think that's an amazing story to tell Chris.

Speaker 3:

No, I just absolutely love that story and I think, from the workforce development side of things, when we're trying to figure out what people want to see in our industry, I think nowadays it's more about what they want to see and I think we need to meet them where they are, and I think construction offers that.

Speaker 3:

And you said you know, if it's not about the money, it might initially be about the money and getting the parents' attention, but it might not have anything to do with money for the kids. It might have more to do with lifestyle, like we've captured with Builder's Life. It might have to do with building a legacy or giving something back to community by being involved in projects that are building hospitals or schools in communities. So I think, more and more as we become a bit more individualistic as a society, we've got to know that anyone at any time, we've got to meet them where they are with the message about what construction has for them, and we can deliver on that. So to me it can be everything to everyone if we give them the right message at the right time when they're ready to hear it. Okay, paul, what?

Speaker 1:

do you got?

Speaker 2:

I think just to sort of join on Jeff's story there, and what Chris is saying is that you know, we don't tell our story very well as an industry and we don't tell about the challenges, the opportunity and the satisfaction you can get from a career in construction. And you know, to me I've been doing it a long time now, I'm getting old, but it's still fun.

Speaker 1:

Come on, you're young, you know there's a lot of.

Speaker 2:

There's a lot of it's just a life.

Speaker 4:

You look young with that hair.

Speaker 2:

It's just lifelong learning, right, you're always learning. Every job's different. There's new technology, you're working with different people and you know what. It's a great way to spend your working life. I just love it, and I think we need to tell that story better to the general public.

Speaker 4:

And just on that, I think traditionally we, you know, in construction we're not very good at doing that. Like most of us are humble, right? We've been told for so many years that you know it's kind of a low-end job and so we just sort of take that. But I think all of us and everybody out there in the industry needs to advocate and really broadcast our message that it's a great place to be and a great place to work.

Speaker 1:

That's fantastic, you guys. Well, is everyone going to have a good evening tonight and a great number of days here at CLF?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1:

All right. So if we do this again next year, we'll make sure everyone can hear us. This is like a you could call it a live pilot, if you will. Tough to do. We've got to get everything going. I've got to get the names right. Jeez, I will do this better next time, I promise, but this has been fantastic. What do you guys think of the panels here? Give it up for these guys. Give it up for Paul, chris and Jeff.

Speaker 1:

All right, I'm James and maybe listen to the site visit. We got lots of this juicy content, so we'll see you guys around. And thank you very much, janine, thank you for setting this up. Amelia, thank you for doing this. Craig is here somewhere. Thank you all. Aaron, I see you all right guys, thank you very much. Have a great day. Well, that does it for another episode of the Site Visit. Thank you for listening. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube. You can also sign up for our monthly newsletter at sitemaxsystemscom slash the site visit, where you'll get industry insights, pro tips and everything you need to know about the SiteVisit podcast and SiteMax, the job site and construction management tool of choice for thousands of contractors in North America and beyond. Sitemax is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building.

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