the Site Visit

Creating a Secure and Efficient Financial Landscape for Contractors with Matthew Smith, CEO at Truss

April 18, 2024 Andrew Hansen, James Faulkner, Christian Hamm
Creating a Secure and Efficient Financial Landscape for Contractors with Matthew Smith, CEO at Truss
the Site Visit
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the Site Visit
Creating a Secure and Efficient Financial Landscape for Contractors with Matthew Smith, CEO at Truss
Apr 18, 2024
Andrew Hansen, James Faulkner, Christian Hamm

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Embark on a transformative journey with our guest Matthew Smith, as we uncover the synergies between cutting-edge financial technology and the brick-and-mortar world of the construction industry. He's the innovative mind behind Truss Payments, the B2B payment platform reshaping how construction companies manage their cash flow, from instant invoice settlements to mobile check deposits. Learn how this revolutionary fintech tool is laying the foundation for a more streamlined, secure, and efficient financial future within the industry.

As we navigate the evolving terrain of banking and finance, we delve into the impact of virtual cards and instant settlements on the control and security of company spending. Matthew shares the exhilarating tale of Truss expansion, providing an insider's view on the network effect of Y Combinator and the seismic shifts in the startup funding landscape. This episode is brimming with insights on the future of industry-specific financial products, the waning of cash transactions, and the bold steps taken in embracing digital transformation in a traditionally cash-driven sector.

Closing the episode with a personal touch, our guest reflects on his passion for indoor rock climbing, drawing parallels between the meticulous strategy required on the walls and in the fintech arena. We also share a cheeky marketing strategy that's as effective as it is delightful—how delivering coffee and donuts to construction sites can build customer loyalty. Whether you're a contrarian banker, a tech-savvy contractor, or a crypto-curious listener, this is the episode where financial innovation meets the concrete world with a bang.

PODCAST INFO:
the Site Visit Website: https://www.sitemaxsystems.com/podcast
the Site Visit on Buzzsprout: https://thesitevisit.buzzsprout.com/269424
the Site Visit on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-site-visit/id1456494446
the Site Visit on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5cp4qJE5ExZmO3EwldN1HH

FOLLOW ALONG:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thesitevisit
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesitevisit

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Send us a Text Message.

Embark on a transformative journey with our guest Matthew Smith, as we uncover the synergies between cutting-edge financial technology and the brick-and-mortar world of the construction industry. He's the innovative mind behind Truss Payments, the B2B payment platform reshaping how construction companies manage their cash flow, from instant invoice settlements to mobile check deposits. Learn how this revolutionary fintech tool is laying the foundation for a more streamlined, secure, and efficient financial future within the industry.

As we navigate the evolving terrain of banking and finance, we delve into the impact of virtual cards and instant settlements on the control and security of company spending. Matthew shares the exhilarating tale of Truss expansion, providing an insider's view on the network effect of Y Combinator and the seismic shifts in the startup funding landscape. This episode is brimming with insights on the future of industry-specific financial products, the waning of cash transactions, and the bold steps taken in embracing digital transformation in a traditionally cash-driven sector.

Closing the episode with a personal touch, our guest reflects on his passion for indoor rock climbing, drawing parallels between the meticulous strategy required on the walls and in the fintech arena. We also share a cheeky marketing strategy that's as effective as it is delightful—how delivering coffee and donuts to construction sites can build customer loyalty. Whether you're a contrarian banker, a tech-savvy contractor, or a crypto-curious listener, this is the episode where financial innovation meets the concrete world with a bang.

PODCAST INFO:
the Site Visit Website: https://www.sitemaxsystems.com/podcast
the Site Visit on Buzzsprout: https://thesitevisit.buzzsprout.com/269424
the Site Visit on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-site-visit/id1456494446
the Site Visit on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5cp4qJE5ExZmO3EwldN1HH

FOLLOW ALONG:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thesitevisit
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesitevisit

Speaker 1:

You're from Vancouver. Very rarely do we have Vancouver people here.

Speaker 2:

I'm actually from Victoria. Okay, so quick clarification.

Speaker 1:

Sorry to disappoint you.

Speaker 2:

Sorry to disappoint you, but I moved to Vancouver a year ago, about a year, year and a half ago.

Speaker 1:

Nice, from Victoria, from Victoria. So what made you come to Vancouver?

Speaker 2:

I had to get out of Victoria.

Speaker 1:

What's the deal? I had a house on the island, so I kind of concur. Is it just a smaller mindset kind of thing?

Speaker 2:

It's just exactly. The energy is different. I grew up there, I was born and raised there. I studied software engineering at UVic, so I just had to get out.

Speaker 1:

Nice, yeah, Cool. And Vancouver is when you get here it's actually smaller than you think, right?

Speaker 2:

It's way smaller than you think. Yeah, it's way smaller than you think, yeah, it's like a tiny.

Speaker 1:

There's only what? Is it? A million, two million people? Yeah, it's just. There's only so many people. Once you get in almost the business networks and stuff, you see the same people.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that's correct.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, especially in tech, it's like same old, same old.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean I spend a lot of time in San Francisco. So I'm in San Francisco three to four months out of the year.

Speaker 1:

What makes you? What's the deal with the San Francisco?

Speaker 2:

Investors. There's the tech community is way bigger. So I mean, if you find me on LinkedIn, like I live in San Francisco and I think it's just, it's better to build. If you're trying to build like a big tech company, being based in San Francisco is a competitive advantage, yeah, so you based there then. Are you based here? Our is a competitive advantage, yeah, so you based there then, or you based here. I mean we have two entities, so we have a Canadian entity, a US subcorp, and the subcorp is based in San Francisco.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I see how many S's are in the word truss Two.

Speaker 2:

Two. So it's the same as the roof truss. I'm just joking, but it's a bank.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the site. Visit podcast leadership and perspective from construction with your host, james baldman. Business as usual, as it has been for so long. Now that it goes back to what we were talking about before and hitting the reset button, you know you read all the books. You read the email. You read scaling up. You read it's a great. You know the emails you read Scaling Up. You read Good to Great. You know I could go on. We've got to a place where we found the secret serum.

Speaker 2:

We found the secret potion. We can get the workers in. We know where to get them. Once I was on a job it was for a while and actually we had a semester concrete and I ordered like a Korean-Finnish patio out front of the site.

Speaker 1:

Show, yesterday I was down at Dallas and a guy just hit me up on.

Speaker 2:

LinkedIn out of the blue and said he was driving from Oklahoma to Dallas to meet with me because he heard the Faber Connect platform on your guys' podcast Home. It crush it and love it and we celebrate these values every single day.

Speaker 1:

Let's get down to it, is it Matt? Matthew, matt Smith, let's go with Matt. You like Matt? Sure Nice, okay, so really interested in this. Really really cool For our US Sitemax customers. We have a thing on our website. You guys are a partner of ours and we're advertising to our customer base your products for construction, financing tools, alternative to banking, et cetera. So are you kind of like the unbank bank?

Speaker 2:

for construction. I would say we do everything your traditional bank does, but better, and we digitize a lot of those systems. So we do banking. I can't say we are a bank, we sit on top of a bank, but think of us as, like, the operating account for your construction business.

Speaker 1:

Let's just go through like products just for a second. So you have your checking account and that's typically for transactions related to the construction projects, or? Yeah. So let's, I mean let's talk about like a typical workflow, like AP, ar kind, transactions related to the construction projects.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so let's talk about a typical workflow, like AP, ar kind of stuff. Yeah, so we can talk about a typical workflow. Let's say you're a small general contractor building custom homes or doing home renovations. You can get a trust account. You'll get an accounting routing number. You can connect QuickBooks to trust. It'll sync all of your invoices. Your customers can pay you using Trust. So we have this payment portal where all your invoices will be stored and customers can go and pay their invoice with our system. The second your customer pays, you get instant access to the funds where then you can turn around and spend the money on our card or you can go and pay a subcontractor.

Speaker 2:

So what's really different about what we do is we combine a payment system with the banking system. And some of you are probably already wondering like well, I print checks from QuickBooks right now. How does this work for me? Well, you can actually print checks from our account, so you can use the account routing number to print checks. It doesn't change what you're doing. And then we also have mobile check deposit, so you can use the account routing number to print checks. It doesn't change what you're doing.

Speaker 2:

And then we also have mobile check deposit, so you can use our system to do mobile check deposit, so you can scan the check with your mobile and all that stuff. Correct, yeah, you can still do that, and an enhancement from what you would have today is that you can actually give access to your staff in the field to deposit checks into your account without giving them full access to your system.

Speaker 1:

So let's without giving them full access to your system. I know there's a lot to unpack there, no, but just use case that for me. So what's the example?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So let's say, actually we have customers doing this. So let's say you have a roofing company and you've got sales reps in the field that are signing contracts for installing a new roof. Maybe they go to the customer's house they close the deal. The customer, writes a check on the spot and then the sales rep will take the check and instead of them putting the check in their truck Taking it to the deposit book, taking it to the bank, whatever.

Speaker 2:

Well, typically they take it back to the office, and then someone in the office has to take it in. They'll just deposit it right there in the field and then that way the money starts processing right away and you get access to the funds way faster. So that's what we've seen.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so is the value proposition here centralization of everything, integration with software, and then speed of convenience of transactions.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and we're also giving you a digital payment system, which most companies in construction actually haven't quite adopted yet. They may have, like they may have tried something like a Square or a Stripe, so can they take credit cards? Absolutely yeah. So we accept credit card. Ach check. Do you provide credit cards? We do issue credit cards as well, you do?

Speaker 1:

okay, so do you partner with Visa or MasterCard?

Speaker 2:

We're partnering with Visa and we're competitive, like our point system is actually competitive with Amex. So we have a point system where you can earn points on your card, you can book travel, get crypto, exchange your points for airline depending on which airline you want to exchange them for get gift cards. We even have like a perks marketplace which you guys are in and you can get discounts at all kinds of different construction SaaS tools. So we're I mean we're really building this bank for construction and all of our deals and perks and the way that money moves and you know, permission systems, whatever the whole thing is geared towards your construction business and that's what makes us really unique.

Speaker 1:

That's really cool. So the other thing you have is staff cards, so take me through staff cards.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so this I would call this like modern expense management and essentially what's happening today is most companies in construction have maybe a few company cards that they're sharing among staff. We're talking credit cards. We're talking credit cards.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So the staff will go out to some supplier or whatever and they'll go, use the card, they'll take the receipt, bring the receipt back to the office if they remember, and it's like card sharing and what we've done is you can actually issue cards to your staff and then they have spend limits that you can set for that staff member. When that staff member spends on the card, they get a text message right away to upload a photo of the receipt tag, the project that they're purchasing for, and then that all shows in a dashboard for your admin staff, like your bookkeeper, the owner. I mean, this is like night and day, right. So most companies, when they see this, they're like, oh wow, what the heck have I been doing? Like, why am I doing this?

Speaker 2:

There's this other cool thing that we do what I call like a vendor card or a virtual card. So let's say you're buying I don't know. Let's say you're doing a project and you have to order this. Like you know, the customer wants these like weird custom blinds. So you have to go to this new supplier that you've never used and get these new custom blinds and the supplier wants you to purchase with credit card. Right, some of you might make the customer go put their credit card in. But let's say you're doing the purchasing for your customer. With our system you can issue a virtual card, name it after that specific vendor for the exact amount you're purchasing, make the purchase, then cancel the card right after, and it protects you from sharing your general company card details with the general web and so that way you're not worried about like oh, am I going to get charged by this vendor again for the same purchase?

Speaker 1:

Or scams, phishing scams.

Speaker 2:

Phishing scams, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, so it makes your system more secure.

Speaker 1:

So that's really cool, and I would imagine that the controls of all of these. So, let's say, with the staff cards, is there a credit facility total? Let's say it's like 50 grand. And then you're like, okay, split your 50 grand up however you want. Is that how you do that? In terms of which?

Speaker 2:

So the available balance yeah, so you set the limit per employee.

Speaker 1:

So each employee has a limit Like 500 bucks, $500, whatever yeah.

Speaker 2:

And then if you know, the employees can't see how much money you have in your account or how much available credit there is for the total account, so to them it makes no difference. But yeah, it's based on the amount of incoming money you have. So we base your credit limit of how much you can spend based on how much money is flowing through your account.

Speaker 1:

Okay, Do you have those attached to how fast is your Apple Pay processing speed?

Speaker 2:

What do you mean by that? Like like you can, I mean you can have the card Apple pay.

Speaker 1:

I know, I know, but with Royal bank I have to go through the stupid hoop to to have it done. Oh no, no, no, no, no, yours is instant right.

Speaker 2:

I mean you can add, you can, you can issue your. I could open my phone. I mean I have a trust account. I could open my phone right now. I could open our phone right now. I could open our app right now, issue myself a virtual card and add it to Apple Wallet in 60 seconds. Perfect, that's cool.

Speaker 1:

So the speed of convenience and everything is like this huge value proposition you have going.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, if you're banking with your local community bank or you're banking with, I mean, even Chase or Bank of America, like this is a ridiculous upgrade for your business. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Right, so based just mostly on convenience and administration and speed of everything. Yeah, I mean, and yes. So what about? What about transaction size? Is there?

Speaker 2:

any like gates limiters. On that we have no limits. I mean we're like a regular. You know if you're going to come to us and say, hey, I need to do, you know, a million dollars per transaction. I mean obviously we're going to do some underwriting and see if you're a real business and you know the rest of it. But I mean, once you're up and running, it's smooth.

Speaker 1:

Do you do you have any um uh accreditation per customer based on history for how fast you clear checks?

Speaker 2:

Um, check clearing is based. I mean we have an algorithm that runs in the background. Okay, so typically what you do is you. I mean it's based on rewarding regular activity versus penalizing unusual or infrequent activity. I see, okay, so like if you're just running your business, you won't even notice what's going on. It's just happening in the background and everything is processing extremely fast. We actually do instant settlement on payments from your customer. So all the transactions let's say it's Monday afternoon and you collect a $10,000 deposit with trust it's instantly available in your account the second your customer clicks pay. So you can go pay a vendor, you can go buy the materials, whatever you need to do.

Speaker 1:

Right, but a check is typical three days kind of thing for it to clear.

Speaker 2:

So the checks are a little bit different. So with checks it takes one day to just validate that that is a correct check. So I would say, and sometimes it's less than one day, and then the next day the funds are available. Wow, that's pretty fast. There's something. There's a difference. We actually really differentiate a vendor payment or a materials purchase versus a withdrawal. So a withdrawal is when you just withdraw money into your third party account, versus, like I'm going to buy materials or I'm going to pay a vendor based on a bill. Those are two different things for us and so, like if you're paying a vendor, the funds are much faster than you just trying to withdraw into a third party.

Speaker 1:

Okay, just a dumb question. Do you have debit cards? Third party Okay.

Speaker 2:

Just a dumb question Do you have a debit cards? So we don't issue debit cards, we only issue on a credit bin. But the credit that you have is based on the available balance in your account with us, so it's based on the amount of money flowing through your account with us.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I see, okay. So if someone has $0 in their account, you don't say here's 50 grand for visa.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so we don't do that today. We don't do that, and a big reason that we don't do that today is because of the market, for lending has been really tough the last few years, especially on banking for everyone, and so for us, you could think of it as like a daily pay charge card and then, as we get bigger, we will eventually do so.

Speaker 1:

is it a Visa debit card then?

Speaker 2:

It's not a Visa debit card, kind of.

Speaker 1:

The way that, conceptually though, so if I let's put it this way If I have. Just to make it simple. If I have, conceptually yes. If I have $10,000 in the account.

Speaker 2:

Your available credit is $10,000. I got that.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So, and then John Smith, who works for me, goes and spends $5,000 at a vendor. Do we now have $5,000 available credit?

Speaker 2:

At the end of the day, it will sweep the money out of your account, but at the end of the day, Okay, yeah, so, so, yes, so this I see.

Speaker 1:

So the, the credit is not really a credit facility, it's more like how much money? So it is kind of like a visa debit, because you're actually drawing down in a way conceptually on what you have. Whereas a credit card is you have. It's not related at all. The approval is based on the approval is yes, the approval is based on how much visa or whatever bank is going to give you, and then they facilitate that through Visa.

Speaker 2:

So the term for this is a daily charge card. So it's a daily charge card and what we are advancing to you. I think some people are like, ah, I need a credit card, and I understand some people still use a credit card. The advantage of this is that we are technically lending you money for the time that it takes for the money that you're collecting to settle. So think of it as like, if you're collecting 100 grand, I mean we're giving you 100 grand right away to go and buy the materials. So we're still technically underwriting you for that time because that money that you just deposited has to settle. So if you went to your regular bank, it would be a different story and most payment systems like, let's say, you're using an independent payment system like Square or Stripe A lot of the time if you want a daily or instant access, they would charge you like one and a half percent for instant access to those funds Because typically they're clearing in like three to five business days.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so what percentage of companies use these traditional if you can call it banks or community banks or whatever because of the fact that they have lent the money or they have a line of credit or the visa they've given them a high?

Speaker 2:

visa. Probably all of them. Okay, probably all of them.

Speaker 1:

So your value proposition to those companies is what?

Speaker 2:

They can still. If they still need the credit facility from their current bank, they can still use that and still use us as an operating account, and we still see that today. Of course, in construction, you still need credit, so you have that as a payee. Whatever it is Correct, people use us as their operating account and if they still need a credit facility, so you e-transfer backwards and forwards from their traditional bank. Yeah, they don't have e-transfer there.

Speaker 1:

Or whatever it's called, ach.

Speaker 2:

They use ACH.

Speaker 1:

So they'll ACH money back and forth. What's that?

Speaker 2:

stand for Automated.

Speaker 1:

Clearinghouse, gotcha. Okay, nice, that's pretty cool and I would imagine that you will be at some point. We're close, yeah, with financing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, financing the project I mean within the next offering these like 30, 60 day charge cards. It'll be like an Amex where you're always going to have to like clear the bill, but we're getting closer. We're getting closer to being able to do that.

Speaker 1:

So is there a legislation for prompt payment in the United States Like that is coming down the legislation here?

Speaker 2:

That is a complicated question. It's state by state, okay, and it depends, okay, yeah, and I'm not an expert on that topic, but I know it's state by state Okay, and it depends, okay, yeah, and I'm not an expert on that topic, but I know it's state by state, because I find that that does in Canada.

Speaker 1:

Anyway, it will impact the get paid now because you know you're going to get paid in two weeks anyway.

Speaker 2:

It will. But I'm curious to see if companies find a way around this prompt payment thing. I know, I know it's going to be crazy, right, like I mean, imagine if you could waive your right to prompt payment and you're not going to get the job unless you waive your right.

Speaker 1:

I mean, it's a tangent, but I guarantee, like someone's probably thought of that, Well, it's a lot of companies that finance their jobs through that, through not paying on time, and that's part of their control. Is the checks? Oh, it's in the mail all that stuff I mean that's more of a nefarious thing. A lot of people don't end up making it.

Speaker 2:

They do that in the States too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm sure they do All right, so got to ask this Give us the origin story. Are you a sole founder or do you have a co-founder? No co-founder. Or do you have a co-partner? No, no, I have a co-founder.

Speaker 2:

How'd you guys meet and what was the napkin chat? So Nick and I, my co-founder, met in software engineering at UVic. So we both were both engineers. Did you write?

Speaker 1:

the code for this software.

Speaker 2:

I don't code anymore as much. Sometimes I'll jump in if I'm really pissed off about something. Is it a language you know, oh yeah, okay, I wrote the beginnings of all of it.

Speaker 1:

Gotcha Okay, and what is that?

Speaker 2:

Our front end is in React, yep, and our back end's in Python, django. Okay, front end TypeScript, react, typescript I should say TypeScript because it's a lot cleaner and safer than just React. Okay, so you guys met at UVic. We met at UVic and I mean we spent a year I think in 2018, just building random stuff like different ideas for things, and then in I guess I think it would be January 2019, we had this epiphany about.

Speaker 2:

We kept talking to businesses about different issues they had and we kept running into this thing like, well, all these businesses are still using checks. Why are they all using checks? What's going on here? Consumers have e-transfer and most consumers, unless you're a business owner, you don't really understand what it is to have to move around 10, 15 grand at a time. But most businesses we found were all using checks and I grew up with the guys I grew up with. None of them went to university. They're all tradesmen. So, like good, really good friends of mine own their own contracting business businesses. One of them is Hutchinson Contracting in Victoria, devin, who I grew up with. He was our first customer, so kind of like the summer of 2019.

Speaker 2:

Nick and I built this B2B payment system for Canada and our goal was like can we just make e-transfer with no limit? I built this B2B payment system for Canada and our goal was like can we just make e-transfer with no limit? Like how do we do that? Can we just do that? And we did that. And then we launched it for Devin, his construction business, and he did our first transaction and then we powered his business. I mean, they're a lot bigger now. They started at zero and I think they're like in the millions, millions a year now and we just powered his business payments. And then we grew that in Canada for three years and then, in the summer of 2019, we were like, okay, I think we hit like a peak here.

Speaker 2:

We were at about a quarter billion dollars a year in payments and we were struggling to kind of build more features in the banking space. So we wanted to launch bank accounts and cards, like all the things that we have now. We wanted to build all those things before, but in Canada we were super restricted by the oligopoly that we live in today. Market's also a lot smaller and so we decided, all right, what would it be like if we just pivoted to the States? And so what happened is in 2022, we actually sold our Canadian business. We sold the Canadian. We didn't sell the business, we sold the software. So we sold the software and the customers.

Speaker 2:

And then we pivoted to the US and in December 2022, we launched Trust into the US. And Trust was basically we took everything we learned in Canada about how construction businesses were doing payments and built that into a much better system sitting on top of a bank, so that we could do the things we really wanted. Like one of the biggest things that we ran into when we were running the Canadian business was that all our transactions settled in three days and every company we signed up in construction would complain about it Like man, I collected the money, it's Monday, is there any way I can get this money right now? And we're like we're sorry, we can't do it, there's no way. And so when we built the US system, we were like, okay, how can we make it? So every transaction is instant. How can we make it? So we never get this ask again? And that's what we did and we found a way to do it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Sweet, okay. And then you went into an incubator.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so we did Y Combinator. What was that process? Like you, know being nominated for that and getting in there and pitching and all that I mean for those that don't know, y Combinator is like the, it's like going, it's like it's like harder to get into than Harvard and it's like it's like the incubator for, for a company. It was like it was life changing.

Speaker 1:

I think our network and you were on campus, there the whole time.

Speaker 2:

It was good during COVID so we were, we were remote.

Speaker 2:

We actually went to San Francisco anyway, yeah, so we were there anyway, but all the sessions and stuff like that was remote, but all the interactions with the people was in person because we were there. We were there. But that made a big difference for the company, allowed us to raise the money we needed to do the next thing. I think the network, the Y Combinator network, is just extremely powerful. I don't know, for those folks who haven't heard of Y Combinator, I don't know how to describe what that is for startup founders, but it's a big deal and that kind of changed the game for us. Yeah, it was a good stamp.

Speaker 1:

Nice and then. So between then and now, and you guys are going to I mean, if people are interested, you're going to raise another round now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're thinking about I mean, it's just in the preliminary stages of thinking about raising another round. Yeah, I'm not sure too much to say about it, but if you're interested in learning more, you can reach out. I don't want to say, I don't want to write anything in stone yeah, for sure got it interesting.

Speaker 1:

So so Now let's just chat a little bit about the advantage of the model. Let's just say For those who are like so how does trust make money?

Speaker 2:

That's a good question. We make money the same way a bank makes money, but without all of the crazy infrastructure costs that they have. So for us we make money on the credit card checkout. So we have a checkout system. When you collect money from your customer, ACH is free. But when your customer pays with credit card, there's an option in your settings. You can surcharge the customer automatically or you can pay the credit card fee for them. It's up to you. I'll say that most companies that work with us they surcharge their customer the credit card fee. So we make money on that credit card fee and then, when funds are in the account, we make interest on the money and then we also make money on the card. So when you swipe your card somewhere, the Visa network pays us out a percentage of those merchant fees that the merchant pays to the network.

Speaker 1:

Okay, do most people know that Most, people know that.

Speaker 2:

Actually, most people don't know how cards work. So the way that cards work let's say you have your, let's take Amex, or we can take our trust card, whatever, but Amex everyone knows when you go to the store and someone has a terminal, the business with the terminal they pay what's called merchant fees. We're all aware of this. They pay their 3% or whatever. That 3% gets chopped up and most of it actually goes to the card issuer, the person that issued the card, which is, say, Amex or Trust. Okay, so most of that money goes there. And then what they do with that money is they give you points. So if Amex says they're giving you 1% cash back, they're giving you a percentage of what they already made on the purchase, right, right, so they're not losing money. Like you have to think everything's a business, right. Like nobody's losing money on these things. I mean, if they are, then they're not going to last very long, right? Someone's offering you 5% cash back? I mean it's not unlimited and there's some T's and C's that you should look at, because it money on the card.

Speaker 2:

When you swipe your card, we get paid from the Visa network and then we give you a portion of that in points and we keep the other portion as revenue and so, yeah, I mean, at scale, we make great money, this is a good business to be in and we actually don't have to charge our customers any money. So we don't charge a SaaS fee, we don't charge transaction fees, right, and it's like this win-win symbiotic relationship and I think that's what I love so much about this business is that we can provide a ton of value for businesses. We get to make money and they don't have to pay anything and they get all this value. Yeah, and that was a big difference from our previous business in Canada. We charged transaction fees and that was something that, when we looked at the States, it was a big blocker for us when we were trying to sell the construction businesses, trying to ask them to pay per transaction. They're like why would I pay per transaction? I use checks and it's free.

Speaker 1:

So now we don't have that argument. I would imagine that on multiple projects, the integration with the accounting software allows you to have more of a granular control on what monies went to what projects.

Speaker 2:

You're moving away, yeah, and it's not just that, like, yes, there's the integration, but also our system is extremely easy to navigate and use. Okay, like way more easy than your regular bank. I mean, we've got you know. Look at your transaction table. You can filter, you can search, you can find what you're looking for. Has the PO number on there sometimes, or the job number. It has whatever you want to put on there, right? We have memos and notes. We have attachments. You can attach a document to every transaction. Right, like your regular bank, when you go into your Bank of America or your Chase account to like zero in on a transaction and add memos and notes and attachments, like it just doesn't, it's not a thing, right? Whereas for us, like, we've built it so that you can add as much context as you need, because there's a lot of these big companies, they have thousands of transactions, millions of dollars moving around and sometimes all it'll say on your transaction item is check number one, two, three, four and your bookkeeper's looking at it going. What is this for?

Speaker 2:

What the heck is this for Like? Why is this short on the invoice Like what's going on, Whereas with our system you have the check number, you also have the vendor name, who paid you the check. You can go in there, add notes and memos and attachment and invoice whatever, so that when you're doing your reconciliation, not only is it synced with your accounting system, but also the extra information that you're looking for can also be stored in our system as well. I see that's cool.

Speaker 1:

I mean, does the accounting software have those endpoints, or you have more than they have often?

Speaker 2:

I mean, we are not a replacement for your accounting system, Of course not.

Speaker 1:

I'm just saying I mean, when you go into your banking system, it really is nice to see more granular details sometimes than even your accounting has.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean we integrate and we put as much context as we can to your accounting system.

Speaker 1:

Because you have time as well of the transaction too. We have everything I know, so like, even like the timestamp of when a transaction went through. I don't know if your accounting software even has just has a date right. It doesn't necessarily say like 2.30.

Speaker 2:

I actually I don't know that, but they definitely have a date stamp.

Speaker 1:

But that's the cool thing is you're able to to look at stuff you know in sequence etc. And you could you could also, you know, filter that and look at that by time when things went through.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, pretty awesome and and I mean the most common use case I've seen is where people go from. They look at their bank statement. They're going from looking at checks and check numbers with amounts to hey, the payment method is a check, but this is the person that it's from, this is the vendor that it's from. Here's the invoice attachment. And imagine that's in your banking system, so you don't have to hunt, you don't have to worry about it. You're going to save so much time on the back office. That's what we see a lot.

Speaker 1:

So where do you see banking changing over the next five years?

Speaker 2:

I mean for us so this is something I didn't mention is we have what's called the trust network. So if you use trust and you pay your subcontractors, your subcontractors have the option. They don't have to. They have the option to sign up for an account with us and join the network so that the next time you pay them the transaction is instant. There's more metadata. They have like a verified badge that appears next to them so you know you're paying the right person. And so our goal is to kind of build a verified network for construction companies so that when you walk onto a job site everybody has a trust account because all the transactions are instant, there's extra metadata for reconciliation and it's all secured and verified. So that's I mean.

Speaker 2:

Maybe that's biased, because I'm saying what I think trust is going to be in five years. I think we is going to be in five years. I think we're going to be on every job site and every contractor is going to have an account with us so that they can use the network to pay. In the States they have Venmo and Cash App, which is for consumers, but this is a business payment network. I think banking as a whole is changing to be more verticalized. So I think banking is becoming more specific for what industry you're in, and I've seen this a lot. So another good example, aside from construction, is e-commerce. There is now a ton of banking for e-commerce companies where the lending is based on when you're getting your Stripe deposit, because most of these e-commerce businesses are using Stripe right and Stripe pays out on a certain schedule.

Speaker 2:

All the deals they get and discounts are based on being a you know online retailer, right, and so kind of similar for construction. It's like all the deals and things that we're building are specific for these construction businesses. So I think what we're going to see is like if you're a farmer or if you're a whatever business you have, you're a hairdresser, like, those financial products are going to be way more catered to your business and how you transact. And I think I mean I think big banks are going to be. I think they'll probably still be around, but they're going to have a harder and harder time maintaining market share and they'll have to. I think they need to change quickly, especially, I mean, the US is already happening, but I mean Canada is another place where it's been really slow to change. But yeah, I definitely. I think that's a big one. Cash is disappearing, yeah. So what's the deal with cash? I think that's a big one. Cash is disappearing.

Speaker 1:

What's the deal with cash? People have the dystopian view or the big brother view about what people are trying to stop with cash because they want to track everything. Or is it just the fact that it's just an antiquated method?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you talk to a lot of construction companies. The construction companies that I talk to that are still using cash are usually I would say I don't want to be harsh, but they're not like the best construction companies. You know, the guys that are sophisticated, that have, that are making more money, that are have faster growing businesses, are not using cash, they're not taking, they don't, they're not worried about hiding the $2,000 or $5,000 from taxes. I mean, you know they're growing their business to be millions of dollars a year. They're not using cash anymore. Yeah, I don't use cash in my personal life. I think it's fairly common in the US to still carry around cash sometimes, but it will get slow, it'll get phased out slowly. Things happen very quickly in the United States and Canada.

Speaker 1:

We're slow, so when you say things move very quickly. What have in the banking system? What have you experienced in the past 24 months that have gone very quickly? Tap-to-pay Tap-to-pay.

Speaker 2:

So tap-to-pay has existed in Canada since what? 2012?, 2012, early 2010s. Tap-to-pay is a brand new thing in the US. Now it's everywhere. In the last I mean whatever call it 36 months, 48 months, I mean it's everywhere Everybody uses Apple Pay now, every place you go to. I mean I was in the States in 2018, 2019.

Speaker 1:

I remember vividly, coming from Canada and not being able to tap to pay anywhere. Yeah, I noticed when I went on holiday. I'm like, you don't have tap here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, what's going on? You don't have tap, guess what. Now tap's everywhere. It moves way faster, way faster. So when there's an innovation or something like that happens, it can happen very quickly, as opposed to in Canada, things tend to happen a little bit slower.

Speaker 1:

But the biggest is Chase. The biggest merchant, kind of like Moneris, is here.

Speaker 2:

I don't know the answer to that.

Speaker 1:

Like for terminals, I think, Once they change, I mean it just goes pretty quick.

Speaker 2:

Square is pretty massive in the US. Square yeah, it depends on where you are. It depends on the size of business. Yeah, if you're after the lowest merchant servicing fees, you're probably going with one of the legacy providers.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and what's your view on Bitcoin? Is that ever going to be anything that people can use? Oh man, this might be controversial.

Speaker 2:

I don't think crypto is a good means of transacting, like I don't think cryptocurrency is a good way to exchange, like I don't think it's a good replacement for money, right um it. The technology is cool for smart contracts and things of that nature, or, you know, maybe maybe speculating. I know people are speculating a lot on like storing, it's like gold or whatever people use that example, but I'm not a big crypto guy for transaction because it's so expensive, like, unless we have some breakthrough in mining in processing.

Speaker 2:

you know, unless we have some sort of breakthrough like, we have a different, a completely different technology than exists today with computers. Sure, we could use it to transact, but I think the big lesson with crypto was that and I like using the example of like, if folks don't know this like, before central banks in the Wild West, there were banks across the US and there's all these stories of people robbing the banks and they robbed the gold from the banks and the banks had gold in their vaults and there's stories of like oh, you open the bank vault and there's nothing in there. People's money just disappeared from these bank vaults. And so they came up with a solution of the central bank. And the central bank was there to regulate all the banks and how money was stored and make sure that banks had enough deposits to cover their customers. And then there was okay, we need insurance for deposits, we need FDIC, we need and we spent 100 years or more developing a robust, secure, stable banking system so that we remove volatility, so that we can trust in the value of a dollar, that I go buy something.

Speaker 2:

And what happened with crypto? And it's like almost naive. Um, people started banks, crypto. These crypto currency exchanges were essentially like banks in the wild west, where people put their money there and there was a vault and, oh my god, the money's gone. Like all of a sudden, there's no money there. Oh and, by the way, there's no central regulator ensuring that these entities or these digital banks have enough deposits and have enough to meet their. You know what I mean. I'm like, why are we doing this again? We already invented a system that's secure and stable. Why are we reinventing the system? And the argument was like oh, we need decentralization, we need a way. And guess what happens? When you have decentralization with no central bank, you get scammed, people get greedy and they steal the money and they walk away.

Speaker 1:

And that was mostly on the altcoin stuff, though, right, anything that was other than Ethereum or Bitcoin. I mean these were.

Speaker 2:

So it has nothing to do with which token or which cryptocurrency. It has everything to do with which exchange. So there's some exchanges like Coinbase which are not scams yeah, exchange. So there's some exchanges like Coinbase which are not scams, yeah, oh, I see Right, it's the exchange. So you could store Bitcoin in an exchange that then disappears with your money.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that makes sense yeah, Right, so it doesn't matter which coin, it is Right. Yeah, so it's more about the fact that it's on like having an having an unregulated entity hold your money for you. Oh my God, Like come right, Did we really? Did we need to relearn that lesson? I don't think so. I was when people were doing that stuff and putting money with these random people and you know, living in the Bahamas, like I was like okay, this is a recipe for disaster. There's no central bank like making sure that they have the deposits Right, and that's why you should trust in the banking system we have. The central bank is a good thing. It ensures that these small little community banks aren't ripping you off, Right, that's what it's for.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, I would agree with you there. I mean, you know Bitcoin specifically has been so volatile that it's you know it's a value creation tool, and that's it I mean, and there's, you want it if you can call it that.

Speaker 2:

It's like a stock basically right, sort of, except stocks have companies that provide value to people. So, like I liked. Another example I like to use is like take a nurse, right, a nurse that works whatever. She works her hours nine to five. How does cryptocurrency as a technology change or improve her life at all? There is no extra utility earned in this technology for this person. It doesn't make a difference to their life whatsoever. They're like oh well, they can use crypto to buy stuff at the store. It's like they have a freaking visa card. So what? Yeah, they can use their visa card to go buy stuff at the store. Like, I don't understand. Like, if you can't give a direct example where a non-crypto person gets value out of crypto, it doesn't make sense. So, and most of the companies are what I would call infrastructure companies selling to infrastructure companies. So it's like a crypto infrastructure is selling to another crypto infrastructure, selling to another crypto infrastructure. There's no end customer doing something with it. There is some value and people are going to say, oh well, there's in South America, in Argentina, people are using crypto to get paid. But guess what they're using? They're using stablecoin.

Speaker 2:

And what's stablecoin backed by the US dollar? Ok, so a stablecoin is backed by the US dollar. So what's the point of the stablecoin? Why not just use the US dollar backed by the US dollar? So what's the point of the stable coin? Why not just use the US dollar? Like the US dollar is safe and secure and backed by the central bank and backed by the US? Like it doesn't make sense. If you can, oh, you can't have a stable coin unless it's backed by the US dollar. Well, why are you using a stable coin? It doesn't really make sense.

Speaker 1:

That's cool. That's cool to get your that's my strong opinion.

Speaker 2:

I'm sure there's others out there that would like could debate this with me, but, like if I were you, I would stay away from some of this crypto stuff.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean the what was it called Bored Ape and the NFTs? I was like okay, this is a joke. I'm like. So if I in order like music's a little bit different, right? Because you have to, because it has a timeline of consumption.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Start and end right. You can tell if someone started or finished a song. There's a play, but something visual. How long can you say that? I've looked at it. The consumption is. It's possible.

Speaker 2:

It's possible, but I mean Kind of it's kind of possible, but why?

Speaker 1:

But it's the same, you know go back to the example I said with the nurse. But to look at it for five seconds is, how different is that than an hour? So I guess, I guess I think you know what I'm saying. If someone to digital representation, one is the real one that has the certificate on it and the other one's not, you still get the same consumption value. Anyway, let's go back to construction.

Speaker 2:

I'm sure people appreciated the tangent though. Well, I think it's kind of cool. It is cool.

Speaker 1:

It's cool. Just to sit with someone in banking is a bit of a cool thing for me. I can ask you those questions, get your perspective. So is there anything else that you can see where I guess the let's just talk about banking in general the machine is going away, I guess because of deposits are electronic and cash isn't being fired out of machines anymore, as much as it used to, I mean almost, but not, but almost not.

Speaker 1:

But how much the bank itself like? Just think about this for a second. The old models of banks owned the real estate. They had a branch, they had people in it. People would line up. They want to talk to somebody. What about the? Is that whole paradigm just gonna die?

Speaker 2:

It will die when a generation I know it sounds terrible it'll die off when the generation of people die off.

Speaker 1:

You just don't go to the bank anymore.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean most of the money in the world is held by people above the age of 50, right, I would assume. I actually don't know if that's true, but I'm assuming that that's true. I would say most of the wealth in the world is held by people over the age of 50 because they've spent their whole lives earning wealth. Those people want to walk into a branch. They want to say, hey, where's my money? They want to shake someone's hand. So I think it'll take a generation or two to shift and eventually we'll probably be digital. I mean, I barely walk. I don't think I've had to walk into the bank in a long time.

Speaker 1:

Did you see that there was a presentation in Ottawa by this guy who's put this generation squeeze thing together? Have you seen this?

Speaker 2:

No, I haven't seen generation squeeze.

Speaker 1:

Okay, we won't go into this, but all I can say is Google or or go to YouTube and find generation squeeze. It's the most bananas thing you've ever heard in your life.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

They're advocating for intergenerational fairness.

Speaker 2:

What does that mean?

Speaker 1:

Redistribution of wealth.

Speaker 2:

Why.

Speaker 1:

Because younger generation are useless and they think that we have so people that work their whole lives have to give up to some like yuppie. Yeah, it's real serious. We're talking standing Can you swear on this.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Fuck that.

Speaker 1:

I mean like what I know that doesn't make any sense, but I don't know. It looks like they're coming for it.

Speaker 2:

What's it called?

Speaker 1:

Intergenerational Fairness and the group is called Generation Squeeze.

Speaker 2:

How old are they? What are they like? A bunch of 25-year-olds.

Speaker 1:

Well, this guy was at least in his 50s. Who was representing it?

Speaker 2:

Oh, okay, he wants to give up his money to a bunch of young people, I don't know, let him. I mean he can do what he wants, right, but yeah.

Speaker 1:

I mean, so that's kind of a crazy thing. So you said that you're probably going to think of doing financing stuff for construction at some point.

Speaker 2:

Financing is coming very soon, so the actual like borrowing money just as like a line.

Speaker 1:

To clear a job To clear a job.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's coming actually faster than the money, faster than like issuing credit on the cards, so we're going to have that in the app very soon, because that's pretty cool.

Speaker 1:

We've been approached by a number of companies actually, who have financed this job button in Sitemaps. Yes, they've wanted us to do that and I've kind of thought of sort of but I'd rather do that with you guys, so when you're ready for that, we'll have the paper, finance this job. Get up to 100,000, or whatever it is.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's coming very soon and for us, I mean we're basically basing it off of your transaction volume with us, right?

Speaker 1:

So because we have the data, so it'll be fairly accurate of like how much you'll need.

Speaker 2:

So you got some underwriters ready to rock and roll with that stuff.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, it's a big project.

Speaker 2:

That's huge. Legally it's huge. It's very challenging to do, but it's coming. It's coming yeah.

Speaker 1:

Nice, that's pretty cool. And then back to Canada. At some point are you just going to ditch it?

Speaker 2:

Probably not. I mean, the US is a huge market. I think it'll take us a long time to build up and dominate that market. Coming back to Canada is a challenge and there's a bunch of regulatory stuff that kind of prevents a business from being successful in Canada, especially in the fintech space.

Speaker 2:

That's why you don't have these types of banks here. It's not because there aren't innovators that want to do it, it's too much brain damage. I mean, I won't say them by name, but there is an example of a digital bank. They're not focused on construction, but I know them well and their digital bank. They don't have insurance on the accounts because they haven't been able to get it. So it's like, how does the government or the you know, how do people expect them to be successful if they can't do something basic like put insurance on the account, right, yeah, it's like kind of ridiculous. Whereas, like, for us, we actually have more insurance. We have 3 million of insurance, whereas regular banks only have like 250,000. Yeah, right, so it's like we can actually do better than the traditional banks, whereas if we're in Canada the big kind of like the big five oligopoly they're always trying to chop your legs off.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, yeah, definitely. The equipment financing is also good as well, like equipment leasing. You got all that sort of stuff that you could be doing there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so there's a long roadmap.

Speaker 1:

We have a long roadmap of financial products that we can build. It's going to take a long time. Yeah, have you seen scenarios where well, I've seen it before, but I don't know if you've seen it in your customer base where, just for liability reasons, like a construction company with a bigger project would just create a numbered company for that project. Oh, yeah, we support that actually, within your platform, are you able to have the parent company and then this one is affiliated somehow?

Speaker 2:

So you can open multiple entities with trust and then when you log in, it lets you just select which company you're logging into.

Speaker 1:

So that's just a huge win right there. A regular bank wouldn't let you do that.

Speaker 2:

Actually I would say 12, we did this analysis the other day. Like 12 to 15% of our current customers have multiple entities. Nice, so that's a normal thing. They log in to the account with their regular login and then they just select which entity they're banking with. Right, because a lot of companies will have their roofing division and then their home reno division and whatever division. So some companies have three entities, right.

Speaker 1:

How often do they close that entity once the project's done Most of the time or do they use it again for something else?

Speaker 2:

Honestly, I can't think of an example where someone opened an entities for a specific project, example where someone opened an entities for a specific project. I know that companies have multiple entities for different divisions of like what they're doing for the specific types of work. That's what I've seen. I haven't seen like the project specific one yet I'm sure we'll come across it.

Speaker 1:

Right, okay, yeah, so like someone with like an excavation company might do municipal work under one company, correct?

Speaker 2:

And then that's what I've, and then the sub stuff they do on something else. Yeah, so they'll have maybe their exactly they'll have their subcontract work and then like, maybe new home builds is under a different entity. That's what I've seen.

Speaker 1:

Nice, okay. So how long does it take to create an account with you guys and get going?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's all digital. You can book, we do white glove onboarding, or you can just go and do it yourself.

Speaker 1:

What does white glove mean?

Speaker 2:

White glove onboarding is like yeah so we'll get on a call with you. We'll I don't want to say hold your hand, but we kind of hold your hand and like walk you through the process of creating an account. You can, we have, you know, you can text our reps if you want, if you have questions or whatever, and you basically just need your business info. We verify your identity. I mean obviously you're opening in a bank account and then you're up and running. I mean it takes less than a day.

Speaker 1:

So do you mail out these Visa cards, or are they all digital cards?

Speaker 2:

You can do either, or so you can most. What we've seen is most companies, when they sign up, they issue physical cards to all their staff and then we FedEx them to you. So it's actually really quick, Nice, we like to get the cards in people's hands very fast and then you can create digital cards and add them to your Apple Wallet in the meantime. What we found is most people want the physical cards. Right, it seems fairly common, yeah, especially if you're going to like gas stations and in the States physical cards are a little bit still more needed than tapping and if you're making $10,000 purchases at a hardware store or whatever they kind of want the card.

Speaker 2:

They usually have the physical card. Yeah, that makes sense. I think there might be limits on.

Speaker 1:

I don't know On Apple Pay.

Speaker 2:

I think Some of them, some stores, have limits on Apple Pay. Yeah, but I mean I've tapped when I was in the States. I've tapped like $2,000 before. So yeah, it does work for some large amounts, but better to have the physical card.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's weird, Like when I went into an Apple store and I wanted to use Apple Pay and there was like there's a limit.

Speaker 2:

I'm like, I'm in your store. Do you not want me to buy?

Speaker 1:

this shit. Okay, that's a bit silly, I know. Okay, how. About some uh rapid fire question if, if, um. So what do you do that other people would think is insane? What do I do that other people think is insane? Who thinks you're nuts for doing xyz something?

Speaker 2:

I mean, starting a digital bank is kind of crazy. Um, yeah, I mean some people I mean my grandparents can't really wrap their head around it. You, some people think that's kind of crazy. Where?

Speaker 1:

are your grandparents from?

Speaker 2:

England, so British.

Speaker 1:

So how is Matthew going to start a bank? I don't understand. Don't you need to be rich to start a bank.

Speaker 2:

It's something like that. You actually do need a lot of money. We raised a lot of money to start. That's cool. I think that's what people think I would say. I also do rock climbing. I like rock climbing. Let's see your forearms Not too crazy.

Speaker 1:

Not too crazy. We used to have a guy work for us. He was a rock climber and he had like Popeye arms. It was huge.

Speaker 2:

I have a really intense job so I don't get to go as often as I'd like to. What's to? Yeah, what's your?

Speaker 1:

what's your favorite climb? Uh, I do all indoor.

Speaker 2:

So I'm not, I don't do the outdoor stuff. I see, do you like going? Uh, I went to craig x all the time I've done outdoor once and I I was very terrified. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's just have you. I mean for people that don't know, in vancouver we have this mountain called the chief yeah you can google google right now the chief. I mean, I've never done that. I don't think I will I don't know, yeah, I like the indoor stuff.

Speaker 2:

It's like, uh, it's like meditating for me. You know, you don't, I don't listen to music or anything, I'll just like climb. And even though it's indoor, the outdoor stuff is, uh, I don't have, I don't have another time for that, you know that alex honnold guy. It's not crazy what he did I hurts it like hurts to watch like the Like the footage. There's no way.

Speaker 1:

I just even on TV.

Speaker 2:

I'm like oh, my God, and you know that's the guy that hasn't died yet. Right there's all these other guys. Don't say yet.

Speaker 1:

Matt Come on.

Speaker 2:

Sorry, there's all these other guys. There's all these other guys, like it's. There's a sad story about a guy from. It was one of his mentors, right, I can't remember his name, but uh, they did yosemite together near the a guy who grew up near the whatever that town is near, the chief squamish. He grew up in squamish and there's a whole documentary about him in squamish and he, he died, oh yeah yeah, so you.

Speaker 1:

I won't see you in a wingsuit anytime soon no, no, no. That's like that plus that, yeah, so like, hey, it was hard for us to get up here. Now let's jump off it Like in the flyway bird. Okay, what would you be doing if you weren't doing what you're doing now? Like total, like other thing not related to what you're doing? Do you have another passion? You'd be like, you know, if I wasn't doing this, I'd be doing something else.

Speaker 2:

I mean I love people Like I like working with people, but I'm also an engineer, so I don't know I like, can I, can I? I'd probably be building something. I don't know I'd be building something, maybe I'd be, maybe I like that. Like, I have that like engineering mindset of built, like the most satisfaction I get is from like coding and seeing something that I've built in real life. So and I see, like like great friend of mine, devin, with his company Hutchinson Contracting, I mean I saw him go from doing little residential jobs and now they're doing big commercial projects and I get to see, like you know, I can see he has the same kind of mindset of like the satisfaction of building and running all these pieces Like it's like I don't know, that's the, that's what feeds my brain. So probably I'd probably be running a construction company or something like that doing big, big projects. Cool yeah.

Speaker 1:

All right, the last question. So I don't know how often you go to job sites, because probably not as much as some of our other guests, I actually have been. You have Okay, so do you have a memorable story from a job site that you're like. Oh my God.

Speaker 2:

The one that I, the only one that came to mind when I saw this was when we were in Canada. We did this growth hack, where we did co-branded construction signs on job sites.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

And I if they posted it on Instagram, I would deliver coffee and donuts to their job site. So we did this co-branded. I remember doing a couple of these and dropping off coffee and donuts.

Speaker 1:

So was it called Trust at the time? No right.

Speaker 2:

We were called back then. We were called Mizumago in Canada.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so people would do this like co-branded sign. And I remember delivering coffee and donuts How'd that go. It was good. I mean lots of cigarette smoke in my face. But I remember some of these job sites. This one in particular was like the guys were super nice and Devin I mean Devin who I delivered to their job site, devin good friends with him. But yeah, it's funny, going from like an office working with software engineers where everyone's very, you know it's a different environment. Going to a job site is like a peek into a different world. It is a different world for sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay, matt. Well, so is it trustsomethingcom? What do we got Trustpaymentscom? Trustpaymentscom for anybody who's interested. And yeah, we're going to continue to do our best to deepen the offering from SiteMax. Awesome, you know. Get you some more customers and yeah, there we go.

Speaker 2:

Sweet, yeah, and I mean with trust. You know, we have a welcome offer 50,000 bonus points, you know, akin to Amex points, after your first 5,000 of spend. So for folks that want to sign up and get a free flight somewhere, yeah, just sign up on our site and tell us that you came from SightMax.

Speaker 1:

Right on. Thanks very much, Matt. Well, that does it for another episode of the Sight Visit. Thank you for listening. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube. You can also sign up for our monthly newsletter at SightMaxSystemscom, where you'll get industry insights, pro tips and everything you need to know about the site visit podcast and Sitemax, the job site and construction management tool of choice for thousands of contractors in North America and beyond. Sitemax is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building.

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