The SiteVisit
Leadership in construction with perspective from the job site. A podcast dedicated to the Construction industry. Construction professionals, General Contractors, Sub trade Contractors, and Specialty Contractors audiences will be engaged by the discussions between the hosts and their guests on topics and stories. Hosted James Faulkner ( CEO/Founder - SiteMax Systems ).
The SiteVisit
Hiring Success Strategies for Contractors with Matt DiBara (DiBara Masonry & the Contractor Consultants) | EP98
In this episode, James and Christian are joined by Matt DiBara from DiBara Masonry and the Contractor Consultants. A seasoned construction professional with a rich family legacy, Matt provides captivating insights into his journey within the industry, deeply rooted in his family's heritage of masonry and concrete craftsmanship, carried from Italy to the United States. Matt shares the impact of organizations like SkillsUSA and the significance of investing in high school and post-secondary education to cultivate skilled trades. His journey highlights the transformative power of hands-on work by contrasting traditional education experiences with real-world experience, for example, his involvement in building a $100 million campus building, where Matt was earning $73 per hour, working while studying. The episode delves into the diverse range of projects undertaken by DiBara Masonry, spanning residential, commercial, and government sectors.
Emphasizing the importance of building relationships, Matt discusses treating everyone like a millionaire. He shares a story about paying close attention to detail on small projects and nurturing relationships in preparation for much larger work when it comes. The conversation then shifts to unconventional marketing approaches and unique selling points, the power of storytelling, visual content, and venturing out of one's comfort zone. Matt shares one awe-inspiring stonework project, the Veterans National Cemetery in Hollywood. Amid labor shortages and hiring challenges, Matt DiBara's proactive response is recounted, revealing insights into optimizing hiring processes and assisting local contractors. Ultimately, this has led Matt to create the Contractor Consultants, and in sharing about this new venture, Matt unpacks the recruiter model and its impact on contractor fees and how offering collaborative solutions can lead to much more effective hiring practices. The episode culminates with a focus on the significance of hiring and retention as a core business component that is so often an afterthought.
Growing up in a family of masons, Matt DiBara's passion for the construction industry was instilled in him from a young age. At just nine years old, Matt began working alongside his father, learning the importance of a strong work ethic and commitment to craftsmanship. As he matured, Matt's admiration for his father's dedication and the challenges faced by contractors inspired him to co-found The Contractor Consultants. This innovative company aims to revolutionize contractor recruitment and help construction companies embrace modern technology, improving their operations and work-life balance.
EPISODE LINKS:
Matt DiBara LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewdibara/
DiBara Masonry Website: https://www.dibaramasonry.com/
The Contractor Consultants Website:
PODCAST INFO:
the Site Visit Website: https://www.sitemaxsystems.com/podcast
the Site Visit on Buzzsprout: https://thesitevisit.buzzsprout.com/269424
the Site Visit on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-site-visit/id1456494446
the Site Visit on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5cp4qJE5ExZmO3EwldN1HH
FOLLOW ALONG:
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All right, well, we're here. It's it's a nice beautiful middle of no beginning of August morning. In beautiful British Columbia, we were heading on some summer break here. We've got an awesome conversation coming up with someone that I know a lot of our listeners are going to want to be listening to some of the most incredible tips on hiring for contractors, building out your team, vetting employees, and getting that done on your own without taking up too much your time. It's fantastic conversation. But we're going on a bit of a summer break. This is going to be the last episode. It's gonna go out on Thursday, August 10, I believe Dave, and and then we are off probably till about Labor Day. Or just during that time, but please, enjoy catch up. We're gonna be adding a lot of YouTube videos over the course of the month catching up on all that, but we have an awesome conversation with Matt DiBara from DiBara masonry in sunny Southern California. And also he's got this great company that can the Contractors Consultants that you're not gonna want to miss out on. Enjoy this one with Matt DiBara
James Faulkner:Welcome to the Site Visit podcast leadership and perspective from construction with your hosts James Faulkner and Christian Hamm
Jesse Unke:Business as usual as it has been for so long now that it goes back to what we were talking about before hitting the reset button
Justin Bontkes:You read all the books, you read the E-Myth, you read Scaling Up, you read Good to Great, you know, I could go on
Sebastian Jacob:We've got to a place where we found the secret serem we found the secret potion we can get the workers in we know where to get them
Cam Roy:One time I was on a jobiste for quite a while and we added some extra concrete and I poured like a broom-finished patio outside the site trailer
John Reid:A guy hit me up on LinkedIn out of the blue and said he was driving from Oklahoma to Dallas to meet with me because he heard the Faber Connect platform on your guys's podcast
Zack Staples:Own it, crush it, love it, we celebrate these values every single day.
James Faulkner:Let's get down to it.
Christian Hamm:All right. Well, we're here for we're are we in the dog days of summer or the dog days of summer? Is that August? Is it July? Like what are the I don't even know you just hear that thrown around all the time. But, dog Damian, I don't even know. Maybe our guests we've got Matt DiBara Joining us from DiBara masonry among a whole bunch other things. And you're joining us from Los Angeles today.
Matt DiBara:sunny LA.
Christian Hamm:Right on man. Well, it's so great to have you do you. Do you have any idea what that whole phrase Dog Days is all about?
Matt DiBara:I was gonna look it up quickly. It's typing so I didn't do that
Christian Hamm:Every day. Maybe Did you hear that? I don't know why that popped into my head. But it's always like the middle of summer. But no, it's awesome to have you. We had a chat maybe a couple of months back and really excited based on everything that you have been working on in your core business and the contractor consultants which we're gonna get into, but why don't you give us and our audience Yeah, a bit of a synopsis of your your career and how you came to where are you? You are right now in the family business.
Matt DiBara:My family's blue collar it's that blue collar American Dream although this is actually like a shade of green but my shirt here. You know, we just started my great grandfather's came from Italy to America worked hard. They knew masonry and concrete and homebuilding. We don't really know where they learned it. But we saw the homes they built in Italy, came here, save money built homes. You know, we became contractors when we started working for people who spoke English because my great grandfather's only spoke Italian. And so that was like the official start of our journey their grandfather do construction dad and uncle and then I got into it from as long as I can remember nine years old was the first time that I really remember my dad being like, Hey, you're on the job work boots like you're working three bucks an hour.
Christian Hamm:It's not bad for nine years old man. Yeah, keep keep going. That's great.
Matt DiBara:Well, yeah, I had to fight to get from my mom was like, give him $25 A day even. And my dad's like, no, it's by the hour. So that was the start. And I just fell in love with the business. The industry and I started really grassroots. I mean digging holes picking up trash on job sites and then but my dad did one thing well, and it was he paid me based on what I learned. So by 1213 years old, I was laying brick I was doing layout and so I was getting a raise every six months to a year and I was working nights with them weekends, summers. So grew quickly. I went to a vocational high school, practice bricklaying and masonry play second in the country and just really loved the industry. The business, went to college didn't learn a whole lot, but you know Few things on construction management side but and then took over the family business.
Christian Hamm:No, that's crazy. And I did a little bit of digging and you said something they're placed. Second was is there some in terms of masonry? Is there like a national challenge or test or something like that? How does that all go down?
Matt DiBara:Yeah, it's called SkillsUSA. I actually did a leadership conference keynote for them. 15,000 kids, and essentially, the way it works is you compete at the so there are trade there are nonprofit that basically champions the skilled trades. So they make the skilled trades cool and fun. So you compete against your all the vocational schools that are involved in SkillsUSA. They compete at a local level, a district, a state and then a national. So you know, I was getting a gold medal in my school as a sophomore for lambrick, you know, and I felt like an Olympic athlete, people are clapping and cheering, that was the first time I ever felt cool for being a brick. Because before that, I was just the dirty kid who played with rocks, you know, so they do a lot of great things to champion the skilled trades. And it's, it's quite an impressive
Sebastian Jacob:organization. That's Wow. So it's like an actual competition, you're in front of people. It's not just hey, I completed this project, and you submit a portfolio for it.
Matt DiBara:No, it's intense. I mean, we start you start at the school level, and then the best first place in school level, right. So your sophomore, junior seniors all compete. And this is all trades, early childhood education. This is like automotive welding, like they all have the same framework. So winner of school goes to districts, and that was a written test. So now you're being judged based on your mental knowledge, you know, of like, all the, behind the scenes technical side of it. And then the first place on that goes to state level, which is like an all day thing. And you have judges and these were union masons and retired business owners that come and they judge and it's like, all set up, it's really intense. And then the National Conference is really intense. I mean, I spoke at the Atlanta Hawks, basketball, you know, stadium, 50,000 kids and, and everyone competes. And it's a week long event with just the best, you know, students of all 50 states, it's really, really, really wild.
Christian Hamm:That that is pretty crazy. I mean, we're here in Vancouver up in Canada. So SkillsUSA is not something we're seeing we I don't know that we have a skills, Canada competition or anything like that, is this this is still go on, is it like a big thing continuously that you can continue to invest into?
Matt DiBara:Yeah, so high school and post post secondary education is kind of how it's built up. But it's, I mean, since 1965, they've had 13 million people go through it. I mean, it's just it's, I think it's the backbone of of the skilled trades or not, um, I'm hoping that it continues to grow. Because I mean, we, it makes it fun. I mean, I felt really cool. As a bricklayer doing this, and that wasn't, you know, it broke the stigma for me a huge part of what what I've been able to go on and do.
Christian Hamm:Well, no doubt. I mean, James, you know, we talked about all the time, but like, you know, how do you advocate for the industry? How do you make it cooler? James always has awesome ideas about that.
James Faulkner:Yeah, I just the question I would have is, is, was there with you getting your gold medal and bringing into high school, all that kind of stuff? Like, did you have this? Was there a tribal difference between you and your friends that you're going to go into the trades? They were going to go on and do something else? Like was there? Was there a group of you on? And if so, was there people who crossed over from one to the other and thought maybe trades who actually be a better path? Then go on to college and blowing 200,000 bucks? Yeah.
Matt DiBara:Well, so we the way they set it up is through vocational school. So my, my high school was I did a week of traditional education. And then I did a week of what we call shop class. And so every other week, you rotated, but you still had the same state requirements. So we had a half the time to pass the same state regulated High School tests. So it was like your week where we were learning how to lay brick and you know, form and pour concrete or place concrete, as my instructor would say, he'd be all over me for that. You know, we did that. And we had homeworks that would give you the second week, you'd have to do on your own. And so everybody within the school had already made the choice to be in the trades. But what was interesting was eighth grade going into that was a big thing. Because you're young, you're impressionable, and everyone's like, Wait, you're not gonna go to a traditional high school, you're gonna go and do what, but what I found funny was my I was probably junior senior, and all of us are making great money because we have a skill. So we're working summers and I'm laying brick, fixing cars and a lot of my buddies that went to traditional high schools, or even during college I mean, they're, they're struggling to get a job at a restaurant or they're working with us, like I had my friends as laborers for me laying brick in high school and I was very interested. It was the first moment where I was like, Wow, this whole build and have a skill with your hands and progress. So certainly gave me a leg up very quickly.
Christian Hamm:Oh, yeah, without a doubt. I mean, I know what you mean through through university. I wasn't doing any vocational stuff and didn't even have really any Co Op opportunities or anything. But working in trades working on the tools. Yeah, it's like you're you jump in you do you do your semester or two, and then you're back in for four or five months of on the job, and then it bits and pieces in between as you can. But to have that consistent work and building that all the way up through like last year high school and then through university. It did, it does give a leg up in terms of work experience, and like what you're even looking at in terms of your career. That's ahead.
Matt DiBara:I mean, the best story, I think that sums it up, I'm in college, I was probably a junior, and they were doing a campus building. So $100 million building and a walk into class. And I see they're laying out stonework, and they're doing I mean, I've done tons of stonework at this point in my life. I'm a junior in college. I mean, I was running jobs like this was my dad's business. And so I see the the pattern wrong. So I go to the farm and I lean over the fence and I'm like, Hey, I'm like that stones in the wrong spot. I'm like, It's random. ashlar four feet long, you're gone. Like that's you got to break the joint there. He's like, What do you don't kid and I'm like, I've been doing this for since I was this tall. He says committee gives me a hard hat is he show me what you got hot shot. So I started laying stone, right? I'm like, late to class and get dirty. I'm like, Come on, give me this break this, where's your chisel? And the guy's looking at next thing you know, there's like 10 or 15. Like the whole crew. And they're looking, I'm setting the corner, which is like, you know, your lead Mason at that point. I'm sat in the corner of plumbing it up. And the guy goes, Do you want a job? And I was like, Well, how does this work? It's prevailing wage, right? It's government wage rate, essentially. And he's like, fill out the paperwork, we'll have you here, I was making 73. This was, gosh, I don't even know how long ago this would have been 15 years plus, I was making $73 An hour working. I had one day Mondays, I didn't have classes on Tuesdays and a half days, but come for eight hours. And then half the second day. So walked on a union job making prevailing wage in college. And you know, my professors would give me a hard time like you can't come to class dirty, like 500 bucks a day lay it started fooling around. I'm like, There's no way I'm gonna miss this opportunity. But it was just interesting to see. It taught me a lot because they had no, you know, they're judging me for being dirty. Instead of instead of being happy or proud that I was able to balance the books with the tools, they just didn't see any value in it. They were like, You're dirty. You're not taking this seriously. And that was it where I was like, Hey, I'm literally building the campus. Like, I'm like, why don't you come out and see the stonework that I did? Because I'm running this project right now, at least helping them do the layout. So it was a very interesting lesson for me in that moment.
Sebastian Jacob:Yeah, there's an awful lot in that story. That's a fantastic example. And based on your experience leading up to that moment, seizing the opportunity, there's probably little or very few, if any other than you that even could have handled that in that moment. So that's pretty amazing. Let's get into the story of yours or not the story but your family business. To borrow masonry. What do you guys do kind of projects are you guys working on? Where do you work? What cities what parts of the country
Matt DiBara:though we started, we started on the East Coast. And we did a lot of different things. And my great grandfather's were home builders. So they built everything. We got into more than masonry and concrete because my grandfather was an artist, like he could draw, he could paint he was just like, he was like a, he was like a DaVinci. And he was born with anything that wasn't really artistic. So we'd like stonework. He liked concrete, like stucco, things that you kind of had to like judge the material and the weather. And if it's shady, you put less water if it's sunny, you put like that was the thing that he liked. And so that kind of shifted our model from home builders to really craftsmen in his field. And then we grew to be very diversified. So we did residential, commercial and government work. Traditionally, brick block stone and concrete. So on the home side, like foundations and driveways, and all all the decorative masonry and then on the commercial side, we're doing banks and you know, your approaches and stuff like that. So pretty, pretty diversified.
Christian Hamm:And all in Southern California now or all over.
Matt DiBara:So they still do a little bit back on the east coast, but mainly, like our main company here is in is in California, and we're SoCal. So I've nine crews we go all over Southern California doing doing a lot of that type of work.
Christian Hamm:That's cool. When we
James Faulkner:go how many projects do you guys have? How many projects do you guys have going at at one time at the company?
Matt DiBara:We're probably we probably have about 14 to 16 open at any point. And then we have usually nine to fluctuate. So if I have big projects, I'll consolidate crews, but no less than usually seven no more than about 14 active job sites like we're working on. But sometimes we're kind of piggyback in where there's inspections or we pull on or off and sometimes out up to like 20 open projects?
Christian Hamm:What would what would constitute a small job versus a large project? For you guys.
Matt DiBara:Um, so I found a little trick. And maybe people agree, maybe they don't. When I was younger, we did a job for a church, and a car backed into it and hit three bricks, and my dad's gonna go fix this on Saturday. So we're gonna fix this. And I everything had to be perfect, right? We had to match the brick and mortar, all of this for three bricks. So we spent an entire day made no money. I'm like, Dad, why are we doing this? We're not making any money. He's like, Well, two reasons. Number one, he's like, it's the church. We want to be good people. He's like, and they're they don't live far from us. And a lot of people. Yeah, they're part of the church. No, it's number two. He said, It's good advertising. And I was like, Yeah, whatever. What do you know? Well, come to find out about six months later, this church is going through a major restoration. They're getting government grants, and the entire church is going to be redone. It's, you know, at that time, this is 20 years ago, whatever. This was probably shy of a million bucks. Well, guess who did the brickwork six months ago, it did a really good job on three little bricks. And I remember meeting with the the person who ran the church. And she said, and I asked her, I said, What made you want to go with us? And she said, you know, we talked about it. And we said that if you were going to put that much effort into fixing three little bricks, golly, knows how much time you'll spend doing this entire church. And it was just a walk in like they didn't get any other bits that didn't like solicited any other work. It was that was it. So I find that I still try and keep like this. I mean, I'm not doing three bricks anymore. But I try and keep the small project because it's good advertising and good marketing, what we do, and I try not to because people get frustrated in the marketplace if they can't find somebody, right? Yeah, little jobs. And so we flip that. And I say, okay, great. If you have a small job, no problem. And I try to do it at cost, because we're obviously expensive at the smaller job market. But it's been some of the best advert like I've gotten my biggest commercial clients, I landed a seven figure bank project for someone who had hit a mailbox, a mystery mailbox, like four grand, we fix them and watch his neighbor was the CEO of this bank, they're doing the entire outside 1.2 million bucks. Guests who did a really good job on the mailbox. had awesome customer service. So size for us isn't really like our sweet spot is like I like stuff from 250 to about a minute and a half is what we try and churn and burn. But you know, I'm still doing those three, four or 5000 our jobs, keeping our name fresh and keeping that standard of work.
Sebastian Jacob:I love that it's a church example. And there's probably a parable in there. For the little things much will be given are much more. Yeah. It's It's hilarious, though. When we chatted originally, you it was around I think the US Open golf. And it was at La CC. And you're like, oh, yeah, we're doing some work up there right now. Was that like, Was that like a little job was one of those little things like he just got called in last minute, hey, fix this thing here? Or is this like a big thing you were doing for the tournament and everything like that? Do you remember,
Matt DiBara:this was small, but it's kind of the same thing. So it was a couple of things they needed to get done. And we do a lot of the golf courses around here. And it was it was a matter of like timing. We need somebody there. And it's Yeah, I was treating, I believe you should treat everybody like a millionaire and treat a millionaire like a billionaire. Right? So that's what I do. They got a little job I treat him like, you know, like they like as if they were bringing bringing a $2 million project. And that one there, they needed to clean a couple things up, patch a few things. And, and that was the start of it. But they're redoing they're doing a bunch of work after the fact that I think we're gonna get because of that.
Christian Hamm:Oh, well, there you go. Man. I love it. That's it's just a great principle to run your business by. And it's just shows you've got this commitment to something that's, that's bigger. And you got to do these little things with just as much, Excellency. Right. So we'll see if James pops back on. But I did have a question about because you talked a little bit about advertising. Is there anything different that you're doing? Being fourth gen in the business, that's like markedly different than say, you know, if you had your father doing it prior to you, you know, from a marketing perspective, add perspective, or just because you can do masonry, or you can do you know, trade specialty contracting work, and you can just keep doing it over and over and over again. But it's 2023. Right, and anything different you're bringing with regards to that?
Matt DiBara:Oh my gosh, yeah, we do so much in the web of marketing and advertising, and business development. I mean, our thing now is, is is really about being selective with who we work with and for so I understand what it cost to acquire a customer. And I also know what it costs or what I make on average per job. So I'm able to do things that are counterintuitive. emotionally, but very logical. Like I can hire a business development person and say, Look, all I want you to do is drive around to this type of this type of business, whether it be architects or general contractors or, you know, structural engineers, because I know what type of work we do, I know that if I get one project or one relationship, what that might be worth. So we do a lot of things that are kind of counterintuitive to just like, if you're looking top line bottom line, if you're looking at a line item on a p&l, you know, I might spend three or five grand or 20 grand or 30 grand to sponsor a certain event, because I know who that's putting us in front of. But the principles of it come down to understanding who we're going after, what I can afford to pay to acquire a job, and then what those jobs are worth. Because I know that I'm able to spend a lot more, and we do a lot of tech based stuff like we'll do geofencing. So, you know, we'll take certain meetings and stuff that are happening with general contractors, or architects, and we'll literally hire an ADS company to geofence, put an invisible fence around that and show them ads, we do mailers, we do pay per click like, I mean, we do all of all, all all of those different different mediums, you
Christian Hamm:know, it's so funny, because as you were describing some of the methods you use, and maybe James can chime in to this. But you know, our business is site Max, it's, you know, construction tech. So yes, there's different things you're doing. Advertising wise, you know, you got your digital stuff, you got your pay, you've got your organic, you do a podcast, you know, you do all these things in you know, maybe they're well, that makes sense for your in software, of course, but you think about the contracting world. And as you were describing, I'm like, Oh, I bet these guys like target them, like after the fact. And then you start describing that. And it's like, come on, if you're a contractor, and you're going to meet with a general or a homeowner, whoever it is you're trying to win business from and then you leave and all sudden they're getting bombarded with the bar masonry advertising, or like it's in their computer, or it's on their, you know, whatever, and they start seeing it like, I don't think a lot of contractors think like that.
Matt DiBara:It's about the relationships, like we, the one thing that my dad never taught me that I didn't understand is like we sponsor the Historical Preservation Awards. I do a lot of historical commercial and government restoration work here in the LA market, small market, small group of people, but you're talking a lot of work, right, but relatively small to like the big construction bubble. And we sponsor this event, it was fascinating, because there were so many companies so much bigger than us exponentially bigger, like huge names that were our name tag. And part of the deal was that your brand and logo was on every name tag, we had, like our own booth, I had three or four people there. And it was just fascinating that people didn't want to spend, you know, five figures. Like, it wasn't that the was difficult. But it was it seemed as though it was difficult to get this keynote, like sponsor sold. I was like, how many people was being there? Are these 10 people gonna be there? Great. So everyday agreement, I was like, you have to check in five minutes, like, Well, why are the money? But I knew, you know, it was that that non traditional marketing of while I need one relationship or one contact to be worth exponentially more than this. But it was fascinating that no one else took that spot. And they sure as you know, these a lot of these big architectural firms, big general contractors, you know, have 1000 employees. Yeah, we're not big. So
Sebastian Jacob:well, it's always interesting. Not just like non traditional ways of marketing or advertising yourself. But especially in construction, there's so many just are this the same places, the usual places a trade show of the association, which I mean, it's part of what you do, it's part of what contractors have to be involved in. But just looking just slightly outside the box sometimes. And just find that one thing that maybe they're not going to be going to kind of like you're describing, and what it could lead to. I mean, I think that in general, and maybe, yeah, we want to tie up this little little piece on advertising. James, we were just getting into chatting because it sounds like it sounded like Matt's been doing an awful lot of that in this fourth generation with the business. But yeah, is there any? Is there any kind of end usually we get into the advice component of things for our audience. But in terms of you're very out there, you're you're speaking at events, what should a business owner be doing a contractor I want to read contracting business just to do something a little bit different. What's like just basic? Well as
Matt DiBara:a couple of things. One is one strategy we've implemented anyone listening can do is there's, I look at belief structures. So a lot of people say, Well, I am competing against my competitors. And so what I found is there are there are a few companies who are bigger than us and mainstream conquer and there's a lot who are smaller than us. I built relationships with All these people. So I go out, and I'll build relationships with the smaller masonary concrete companies, you know why? Because when I get a small job, and I'm too busy, I can either give it to him, or I could sub to them, number one, number two, when they get the big call, and that GC that they're working for says, Hey, I just landed this huge project, and they're looking at going wild, they have to cruise I can't cash flow state, who are they going to give it to? So like counterintuitive strategy, for your business is what I think I've been, you know, relatively good at over the years. One is knowing all your competitors and building out frameworks, like there's one or two companies that are bigger than us. And I just referred them a massive job was like 15 million. I was like, why not? I don't want to do this, this isn't what I want to do. And we're sent that over to them. And they're like, if we land this, get a good guess. But like, well, we'll figure out how to make this work, and a good way. So that's one strategy. I think the other is, is really solidifying your presence online, in a big way. It helps with the hiring, and it helps with the marketing. So what does that look like? Well, I remember when we were doing the Yellow Pages, and it was like, the only thing you did you were in the phonebook before websites before all of this. And now we've moved to a place where people really want to be connected to a story, they want to see the work. And so a lot of business owners thing, maybe social media, or, or certain things that put your company out there, right, capturing video content and distributing that to customers is a waste of time. But for example, we we need another tangible example, we we have two options for quotes, if you call the company on the residential division, or like even the light commercial. And so you we can send somebody out or we'll give you a preliminary numbers, if I have a GC and I've worked for them, I'll say send us over the send us over the plans, and we'll give you a rough price. We respond to that with a video about the company that's specifically built around our commercial division. So they're, they're seeing a video, they're seeing our story, they're seeing a brochure, so we're warming up that lead, so to speak, and getting them you know, to fall in love with our story and who we are and really being clear about that. I think far too often, the biggest opportunity I see is in brand positioning. So I think like in the car market, for example, if you look at the car industry, right, we all know what a Toyota is. We all know what a BMW is. We all know what a Ferrari is. But asking yourself in your business, like what brand are you? Are you a high price, high quality? Are you low price high output? Like, where do you fit, because the first step is to really know who you are. And then once you know that you start understanding where you fit relative to your competitors. And that makes things so much easier, because then you get to decide for your clients. Like, we'll have GCS reach out to us. And I'll go, Hey, look like if this is low bid, prot, we're not your I don't want to waste your time. We're not your company. But talk to this company. Why do I do that? Because I've already got the relationship with them. So I it's it's circular, but the brand positioning is a big one.
James Faulkner:Wow, it's so it seems like you as a consultant, you have to dip your foot in psychology, you got to dip your foot into digital strategies. So are you finding that on the relationship piece, sometimes people aren't as gregarious as you'd like them to be. They're not, you know, necessarily outgoing enough. And they're busy. And they got a lot of excuses why they don't go to things, and why they don't, you know, step out of their comfort zone and make themselves vulnerable to go and start a new relationship. So on the psychology side, you got to handle that. So what do you say to those people who it's not their personality type to be? They're more of a quiet, silent type. Do you see that?
Matt DiBara:Yeah, I know exactly what you mean, I was that person. This is this what I say How selfish all about you. Right? That's what I did to myself, right? I was like, I don't like going out. What what does all these statements have in common? I don't like going out. I don't like talking to people, I don't feel good about it. I don't think I'm good enough. There's an AI in front of every one of those. I think as soon as you make it something bigger than yourself, when you say I'm going to do this for my employees, I'm going to do this to have an amazing brand. I'm going to do this for my customers. I'm going to do this for my husband or my wife at home that needs me to be an A player and the best version of myself. I hated all of this stuff. Like let me be very clear. The person you see today is not the bomb, deathly afraid of public speaking. I don't think I speak that. Well, I hate this voice. Right. Like I don't I probably won't go back and listen to this. Right. But I'm doing this because I believe I'm serving a mission bigger and only because I don't like the sound. No, no, I
Christian Hamm:get it. We get it.
Matt DiBara:You don't I mean, it's like I just want to be real on level. It's when you serve a mission bigger than yourself. You find the momentum to go out and do big things. It's when it's all about you or in my case, I'll speak for me when it was about me. I'm shy. I don't feel good. I don't Want to do that? It's always like, it was like, Well, what about my team? Does my team deserve the company to grow? Do they deserve a good leader? Does my family deserve somebody that's gonna go out there and be an example of taking something you're scared of and still doing, like, I just started playing, and maybe it's a mental trick, I don't know. But I started making everything about somebody else. And I found that I would do a lot more for anybody else than I would ever do if it was just all about me. And that's how I was able to flip the switch into all the things that I'm doing right now.
James Faulkner:So would you say that I heard this the other day, I was listening to some other podcasts, and they were talking about the word gratitude. And that gratitude needs to not be a an insular activity. So in other words, you're not just saying, Oh, I'm so grateful of all these people who do these things. It's that gratitude needs to manifest itself in how you show up in the world. And when you said that, you know, there's these people who can count on, you know, one hand, Oh, these are the eyes, you know, this, lots of eyes there. Well, I shouldn't do something. And that's, you said that that was selfish, which, you know, I agree with it's a it's a more of a, of somebody who thinks that I'm not sure if it's like a, somebody feels that they are more important, or they want to, or maybe their skill is so good. And they're so confident they don't feel like they want to talk about it. That's partially it too. It's, it's, you know, being as having some pride around some things. But so what do you what do you think about the word gratitude, you talk to your clients about that in terms of team building cetera?
Matt DiBara:Yeah, I think I think gratitude is a huge, a huge component, but it's a balance. And, and I do an exercise, right? What helps me a lot in business is is I call it the selfish hat exercise. And so what I do is, whenever I'm trying to figure something out, I draw one of those old school Venn diagrams, so the two circles and then the little spot when they overlap, and I put on so this, I've come up with some of my best business ideas, I put on my first hat, which is me, right? So I'll put on the map to buy ourselves a shot. And I will. So for example, and I'll show how this works so that people can apply this to other things that they have going on in their business. So I said, I'm so sick and tired of sending salespeople out to these jobs, and then we're worth twice as much they weren't the right project, like it costs money, the salesperson doesn't like it the customer doesn't like so I wrote down all the things that I selfishly want, I want, you know, I don't want to waste time driving, I want to be able to know when I show up to a job that that price is already going to like just everything selfishly that I want. Then I said Okay, so I literally took the hat off, put on a different ice, okay, now I'm the customer. I'm going to selfishly what are all the things I want, right? I want you to give me a price as fast and easy as possible. I want you to be low priced, like everything selfishly, that I want as a customer. And then I said, Okay, where did these two things overlap? Where can I build processes where I can marry these two things. And that's how we came up with the virtual consultation model we have where homeowners send in a couple pictures, and we give them preliminary pricing typically within five or 10%, we've got a real easy way for them to do it, it's a video at 60 seconds long shows them how to do it, they can text the photos and, and it works because it's selfish to what we want as a company and what they want as a client. So going back to gratitude, it's gratitude is great, I think it's important to be practicing gratitude. But there's also a level of of, it's okay to also have a level of this didn't satiated, right? Like not completely satisfied with things, I think when you can do that dance, the most successful people I found can do that dance of walk into their office and love what they built on their team. But oh, gosh, we could do a little bit better here. And I really think we can, you know, raise the standard of this or do more work or hire more people or the like. So it's, it's, I find that it's a little bit of a dance. And that dance in practice is what I just showed, with the Venn diagram exercise, it's like when you can do the dance, right of like, this is what I want, as a contractor, this is what my customers want, and then start to figure out where overlap is. I mean, that's the pattern I've observed. I mean, I have a lot of billionaire clients that I've got the good fortune of sitting down with, after we've done work for them and just pick their brains and really successful actors and actresses and singers and fashion designers. And I mean you name it producers mean, and I've noticed that they can do the dance, they can really like put on this is what I want my company, this is what my customer wants, and then they start to melt. And then the gratitude dance to have like, I'm very grateful, but also like this and this and this can be better. And that's been always a fascinating thing for me.
James Faulkner:That's interesting. That's great.
Sebastian Jacob:No, I think that was really awesome that you unpacked all that. Do have something else to add, but I do want to know who has the nicest stonework in Hollywood
Matt DiBara:nicest stonework in Hollywood. That's a good one, um,
Christian Hamm:maybe one that you really liked a job
Matt DiBara:to veterans. I did the veterans National Cemetery. And I think that was one of the that was beautiful. It was they did, I think it was eight or 9000 pieces of granite that we laid. And it was like it was a newer project where they still, they didn't worry so much about budget, they were like, we're making this a memorial, like we want this to be a special place. And that was I mean, it's it was like old world building. They didn't spare any expense. And that came out really nice.
Sebastian Jacob:Oh, yeah. That's a whole other thing, right? how things used to be built, you know, the you always see these memes online. It's like, this massive fan. It's like, how did or how can we do that today? Well, we couldn't, or we can't son, you know, but it's true. I mean, like, just the way that things used to be built. But no, the way that you unpack that, and what you said, I think you speak for a ton of people, whether they're the owners of contracting businesses, and they, you know, they have a bit of impostor syndrome, like they ended up there, because they were on the tools, and now they're running a business. And it's the eye thing that you were saying, and, and, and it really resonates with me. When you say you hated public speaking, you hated, you know, hearing your voice, you hated all these things. Unfortunately, where you are and what you do, you do a lot of it. But it was a progression of things. And you're still you know, that balance of the credit side, dissatisfied all this kind of thing and figuring it all out. So I think that was really cool. But clearly, you care about people. And you did talk a lot about the hiring. Are you talking about hiring a little bit, and we see in the background of your of your screen there, the contractor consultants feel like a lot of the things you're sharing, I'm like, okay, that must have something to do with it, what you do and that side of the thing, why don't you tell our audience? And let us know too, about the contractor consultants? What is it you guys do and who you help him?
Matt DiBara:Well, let me take you back for a moment. So I, I saw with marketing, I saw the Yellow Pages move to the internet. And I saw companies go out of business. I remember, you know, we got on, we did online marketing somewhat early on not very well. And I saw a lot of really successful companies go by the wayside. Man, I sat at tables where my dad was buying their equipment, right, big companies, lots of money. So I've seen that. patterns and trends and construction, like the marketplace is unforgiving. It's like the it's like Mother Nature. What I mean by that is you're gonna have sunshine, are you gonna have earthquakes, tornadoes, and it's both it's the same thing. It's the ecosystem. So that always scared me as a young kid, you know, I'm going Wow, dad, like we were, we used to, like do little jobs for this company. And now we're buying all their equipment. And you know, he's crying, and he's losing his house. So like, had a huge impact on his kid. So I've always been really scared to be quite honest of changing trends. And I've always tried to watch those because I've seen what can happen. You know, I remember in 2008, a lot of people went out of business, big homebuilders, tons of money selling their cars. You know, my dad's looking at a Porsche. She's like, maybe I get it been life crisis, right. And the guy's crying, he's like, I'm losing my house. I'm losing this. So I'm, like, horrified. So these, these milestones kind of led up to this. So I noticed in 2016 1718, it was getting increasingly harder to find people. And I noticed that we would price jobs. They'd be like, You're too high. You're crazy. We own the work, you You're lucky to work for us GC specifically. And also owners, right? We work directly with owners on the commercial side, and then they were coming back and they're going, hey, this person cancelled, they didn't show up. This one went out of business, and they will pay a price now. I went, Okay, something shifting in the marketplace here. But at the time, I was so distracted by sales. So we're selling selling some pinnacle of the business was right around 2018 2019. I was doing, I believe the Veterans Memorial. I was doing three celebrity homes. I think I just finished Jim Henson studios, like this company was humming. It was like, what, what we wanted. And my team kept saying to me, Matt, like, I don't think we have enough manpower. And I'm like, Oh, God, another 1 million bucks, high five, and like going up on the board, like, you know, it was just crazy. And I felt like my great grandfather's came to this country for this moment. Well, my team is meeting and they're like, Matt, like, everything's falling apart. And they show me on my whiteboard. They're like, here's all the clients canceling, because we can't get here's all the jobs that are running over and how much here's the jobs we can't get like, it was the tune of a million bucks that I was going to lose in the next three to four. It was like I'm driving 100 miles an hour towards a brick wall. I see the wall 10 feet away, and there ain't no stopping it. It was because I wasn't focused on hiring. So I ended up at that moment. I mean, I took my lumps I worked through it but I said I'll I became obsessed with hiring because before that I was so obsessed with sales, marketing, business development, top line, and that set the stage for what you see. I took about two years and I took over the hiring within my company did 1000s of interviews. I think at one point we have 57 recruiters like I just went nuts like hundreds of I was with dollars, I was like, I need to figure this out. And I couldn't figure out any one system. I went to consultants, I had people in the tech industry in the entertainment industry. I'm like, what works. And I couldn't find like one ABCD system, but I was borrowing nuggets. I was like, Ooh, this works really good for culture, this works for finding. And then I put it all together into a system. And we built kind of a framework that I used, fix my problem, and then I started helping people locally. So contractors, I know that like, man, you don't look stressed anymore. I'm like, Well, finally now I feel like if I sell their job, I'm excited. And I can do it. I'm no longer stressed. And so then I, my daughter was on the way. And I was like, I need to put this together in a way where I can distribute all of this, because the problem was I was creating problems for people by solving problems. So I would teach contractors how to find candidates, right? Like my friends locally here and across the country. And then they would find too many. And they were doing traditional interviews, so doing one hour slots, and they're like, Man, I got 16 interviews this week, like, I'm gonna go out of business, I can't sit down for 16 hours. And I'm like, no, no, you got to have qualifying questions, right? Or they would go and hire somebody with and they'd send the offer letter, and you'd be like, I lost them. Because they shopped the price to their current employer got a 10% Raise and never left. I'm like, no, no, no, you got to do it in person. So I said, it's too dangerous to like, give little tips and tricks without knowing the system. So I made the contractor hiring course, my business partner. And that was really the start of everything. We got endorsed by zip recruiter, actually the co founder on the website. And it was just an experiment. It was an experiment to I helped people to then I was like, Well, I can't like one on one this and you got to know the whole system. So we made a course. And then from there, we started just like doing webinars and speaking, not my favorite thing, as I already told you. But I was doing it because I believed in helping contractors because my dad struggled with this topic. And it's really like an emotional thing for me. So, you know, teaching people how to do this stuff. And then we got a lot of contractors that were like, Hey, we love your course. Two things were coming up. Number one, how do I know it really works? I'm like, well, the co founder or zip recruiters on the website, I got all these testimonials. They're like, No, but like, how do we No, no, I was like, Okay, we're gonna build and do all this for contractors. So we developed outsource hiring. So I took like, the biggest pain point that business owners have, which is like, I literally went through the whole process. I'm like, okay, they don't do keyword testing, headline testing. They don't post to enough job boards, they can't get to candidates fast enough. When they do they don't necessarily know what to say, you know, the pre screening interviews are always a pain because nobody wants to do that. So people don't show up, or you're like, oh, I don't have a driver's license. Well, why don't I talk to you for 10 minutes, then, you know, you didn't make the first requirement. So we built this, this service out, and we do it for contractors. So we do full cycle hiring for a monthly fee, no recruiters fees, because I hated that. I hated that. Like, in my opinion, like cultures, you know, like, they swoop in when you're in pain, you're hobbling along, you know, like, look through them aloud, and they just swoop in and just pick you up, you know. So that's, that's kind of the, in a nutshell, what we built how we got here. And now we've got I don't know, for all 50 states yet, but we've got people all across the country. And we, as the owner, you show up to final vetted, approved interviews. That's it. So like, we're like, Hey, here's three people that we talk to you that meet all your requirements. And we just we put everything together in a done for you service.
Christian Hamm:I guess it I mean, there's lots of questions, because that's, that's really cool. And that evolved pretty quickly. This is just since 2019 2020. I think it was
Matt DiBara:later because the course took me almost a year and a half to develop. But it's certainly it was later.
Christian Hamm:Yeah. Okay. So very, very fresh. When you said just a monthly fee, because I'm you know, I know, William James knows you like recruiters like, yeah, and having to pay a percentage or whatever it happens to be. That's a little bit of the zip recruiter model, right?
Matt DiBara:I know. So what the way it works is we we have to come in so I have a foundation formula. So we come into a company, I have our team analyzes what their competitors are doing. So that's called a competitor audit. So we figure out what your competitors offering that might be better than you What are they doing as well? Because some markets are more competitive than others. And then we look at the other side, and we say, okay, what are your employees? Like? We call it an honest employee audit? What are your employees? So we developed a framework where we can basically have the business owner send out a link, anonymous link, it's one through 10 scale, you know, quick one through 10 on these 10 questions, that gives us a feel for what the current employees like about working there. So what I'm trying to do two things. We're trying to bridge the gaps with the competitors, but also amplify why John's been working for this company for 17 years. Like why showing up every day, John? Why does Tom here for five and Hey, Mike, you've been here for a year and a half while you're still showing up, right? And you take that we try and package that on the front end. So we build out all these assets like we fill in these really cool career videos for them. that showcase the company so that a candidate sees it, clicks a button and sees this video and goes, Wow, I want to work for this plumbing company. This looks cool. And it's got people and testimonials. And so we've got a formula where we build everything out for them, because they don't have time. That's what the course helped. It showed you like how to do this stuff. But contractors didn't have time. And then and then it's like, Okay, now we manage it on an ongoing basis, because we've set you up for success to begin with.
Sebastian Jacob:Well, there's an awful lot of, like you said, heavy lifting on the front end, you're doing a lot of like fit testing of people are vetting right upfront, which is super handy in any industry, but especially in contracting. And would you say like, I feel, maybe the last 10 to 12 months, we've you know, we do podcasts? Or Or let's say the last six months, and it always comes up labor shortage, hiring trouble, all this kind of stuff. And I get there's different pockets, but we're talking North America here, if we're talking just the US. Would you say that in general? There is in particular in construction, a shortage of those available to filled skilled jobs? Yes. Right. Like not had an agreement? Yeah. And with this, do you get like some pretty good feedback? Like, would you say not eliminating it, but you're using inside your own business? Are you having a hard time finding skilled people to to fill roles in your business? Are those that you're helping? Or is there a marked improvement?
Matt DiBara:Oh, my I mean, Massa, we have a tear. So we're able to, we're able to adjust our output based on the market. So it's almost like weight resistance, right? Like, imagine I got, that's 80 pounds, and I come in with 20 pounds of force. And I'm like, Okay, that didn't work. Let me crank it up. 40. That didn't work. Like we can adjust our output. And sometimes we find on the first few levels or layers, if you will, we can crack it. Sometimes we have to need to adjust and headline test and post. And we have partner referral strategies we've got I mean, all kinds of different things. But one of the things that I think is important is so with problems lie opportunities, we find that with our clients, and in my own construction business, which is still still running, that one of the best sales tools is to have an amazing team. Like the best strategy, if you're a general contractor, you finding great subs is your best, in my opinion, one of your best sales tools. Because if I can guarantee a start date, a finish date, I can finish early, and I can make that project easy. I stand above 90% of the other companies that can't do that consistently. So I think this conversation around hiring, whether it's a GC hiring subs, or you're a GC in your back office, your PMS, your estimators, your site supers or your specialty trades focusing on this, like, it's so interesting, because the amount of times we and our clients have one work being more expensive. But guaranteeing Hey, we'll do liquidated damages. Like that is such a powerful tool, like people say, Well, I gotta sell work, too. I agree. I'm a recovering sales junkie. And when I did the pay, I'm still in the program. Like I was all about sales. But nowadays the best selling proposition is we guarantee completion within you know, 90 days or 100. Like that stuff is powerful right now. And that comes from hiring the right people.
Christian Hamm:That's that's a pretty confident statement to view saying you're guaranteeing finish times is that what is that?
Matt DiBara:Well, yeah, so if you if obviously, you have your fine print of like there's weather, yeah, materials, but when you can control and confidently control your labor. I mean, look back at how things were in the 80s and 90s. Like, you know, the companies that were doing well, labor wasn't an issue. And so it was like, Look, you need this done by this time. Great. I'll put 50 I remember being on jobs, right commercial projects, and they'd be like, I'll put 100 guys here. No problem, we'll get this done. And it was easy to do. Nowadays, it's very difficult. So having control of your schedule and your Completion is so so powerful. I mean that's the companies we see that are really coming in and crushing it can do that but it takes work to get there.
Christian Hamm:Absolutely. So I'm
James Faulkner:just looking. I'm just looking at your website here. I got the luxury of having a big screen right in front of me I can look at it. It seems like you are really sort of itching a scratch or scratching an itch. scratching an itch I think is really needed out there. Yeah, like just the the approach you have almost looks like you know, SAS company kind of quality look to it. But as not many consultants are kind of this good at doing this kind of thing. I mean it really is pretty good man. Yeah, it is like it is solid. The so based on your testimonials you have like what is your ideal customer profile like what is that? What does that size have on the consultant side of things and how much of it is split between them with your hiring services and how much on the consultant side, otherwise,
Matt DiBara:we do consulting, but our main and I know I know our names, the contract says our main focus is the hiring side, like the service that we deliver, because I find that that's the most value. Because you can promise people things all day long. You know, like, we built the course. And that's great. And we've got guarantees for that, and whatnot. But at the end of the day, when you have a service, it's like, I'm gonna get you results, and you're gonna fire me. And that's what I liked about what we built. So we've seen great success in terms of like size of business. I mean, I think, last I checked, the smallest was a handyman who's doing by 87,000 a year wants to grow the business. And then one of our clients is got a nine figure portfolio of companies across the country. So it works at scale, because we have an enterprise model. So if you're like, hey, hire 80 people, we have a, we'll build a custom package, but most companies need one, two, or three is kind of like the first round of hiring, and then they'll they'll scale up if they need more. So there's no, we were looking for that we're like, oh, we're gonna find this bullseye. But it's really not that it's all different industries. Because it's just it's a, it's a formula that works. And we've got an amazing team that knows how to do this. And so there's no, like, you're not too big. We have general contractors, we do a lot of their back office PMS, estimator, site, Supers. I mean, it's just all over the map.
James Faulkner:The so what is your anti Volterra pitch? Like? What is your what is your business model? Why are people like, Oh, this is way better? Like what is? What's the how do you make money? How do they pay you, equitably? How does that work?
Matt DiBara:Well, so recruiters come in, and they have all this back and behind the scenes stuff that they do, right. That's why they make money and part of the recruiting model the fees so high is because for I was talking to somebody who owns a big recruiting firm that I know friend of mine, not just construction all over it. And he's like, you know, the the 10% of clients that we place for relative to the 90%. We don't that 10% pays for all the 90% that they tried to find people for had costs and couldn't pay the fees. I said, What if there was a model where we could come in and build assets that the company keeps, right you own these like, this is your career video is a your graphics, we make, you know, recruiting cards, right branded cards that they can hand out? Like these are your strategies, if you will. So what if we did that where they actually come away with something? And then what if we became a partner? And so we built our company around a partnership model, where it's my belief right now that so you every company needs to HR departments, okay. Human Resources, hiring and retention. Retention bubble got so big and so specialized. Like, it's almost like SEO, like most companies don't do their own search engine optimization, right? They hired company, they do it, they meet with them, there's reports and metrics, the hiring now is so complicated, and so fluid. And so up and down, that if you don't have somebody watching this every like our team is by the minute candidate comes in within three minutes, boom, thank you so much for applying, I'd love to get on a call caught like, it's zation. Now, and same thing with retention of the team, like auditing their happiness, figuring out how to maximize their happiness, right? Because that shows up as output in the field. Human Resource Managers are so burdened with like the day to day of all the stuff they need to do. Yeah, and it's a specialty skill. Now, it's not like, like, the amount of training our team goes through to be able to do this. It's like it's a hyper specialized thing like SEO, keyword testing, job boards, and analytics and reporting. You know what qualifying questions in tech like, all of that, so that's one part. And then on the recruiter model, you know, they're doing well, and they're doing some of the things we do. But I think they're, I believe they're taking advantage of contractors. I believe they're not, you're not leaving with any assets, you leave with a 90 day replacement guarantee that if John doesn't work out, right, recruiter says, we'll find a replacement. I have a I have recruited from five years ago, and my construction company is still looking for a replacement. We're still looking back. I'm like, What are we gonna find this person or what they like, yeah, they're coming when they come up. Like, I've literally did a data analytics on him. I said, Look, when you are hiring actively for this role, we got 20 qualified people in four weeks. Should you be looking for a replacement for five years? I've gotten 10 resumes. Yeah, like what is this?
James Faulkner:Well, that's the thing is is that you know, not only is the the standard recruitment model really expensive, what they completely they all know it, but they don't want to admit it as the amount of resources it takes internally. When you have to churn and burn somebody that wasn't right. Like the amount of your you know, as a company, you're forming a relationship with that person. And then you're also you know, if you have a good culture or a company, you can be friendly, you can to onboard them, you do all this stuff? And the recruiter just says, Oh, well, if they don't work out, we'll just get you someone new. It's like, Do you really think that a company has such a transparent, non feeling type of a culture that you're just going to slip someone in and out like a machine part? It doesn't work like that. There's a lot of soft skill going around that transaction. So, you know, I think what you're doing, you know, makes a lot more sense. So how do companies pay you? What do they pay? Is it a sliding scale? What's the deal there?
Matt DiBara:Yeah, I mean, a lot of companies, it could be as low as 1500 bucks a month for us to handle this on a weekly basis. Yeah, exactly what they need, there's an asset built out. And that's a little bit different based on companies. But I mean, our thing is, is affordability, our thinking is longevity, like we want to our goal is to work with the company and take this over for indefinitely, like we're not, I'm not coming into this deal, trying to come in and make a few bucks. And I think there's just, there's so many flaws in the system, right? Because when you look at this, too, and this is what fascinated me, when I started to figure these things out, was I was like, okay, big companies, the real big ones, 1000 employees plus 1500. They're not teaching other companies how to do this. They're just doing it themselves. So you got a gap in the marketplace there. And the recruiters, what they don't care about, is they don't care at all about retention. And they also only care about the salary. So they're looking at like, The Times back in the day, when I was working with recruiters trying to figure out what they were doing and hiring them. I remember I'd have a candidate 120 grand, and then he'd come back to me, I would tell the recruiter, I think I like this one, right? You come back, he'd be like, Yeah, I want 150. Like, what happened? The recruiters behind it, they're here going, yeah, 150 Because they make another 30% off of that. It is that, that 30 grand or whatnot. So it's just, I'm a practical guy, I'm when we built this company, me and my co founder, Luca, it was just like, what are the things? You know, what are the things that are wrong with this picture, if you're not looking at retention, you're not looking at plugging the hole, which is why we do the honest employee audits and try and understand that, you know, if you're not building assets for the company that they can have, you know, we're just we're not I don't believe a partner at that point. And if it's not affordable and monthly, then you know, they're, they're not set up for success, because it might take a couple of months to really fine tune things and tweak and test and optimize. And there needs to be benefit for both sides. So it's it was a rather simple thing. But I did my little Venn diagram exercise that I told you about earlier. And I was like, You guys work?
James Faulkner:Nice. That's awesome.
Christian Hamm:Yeah. Well, I mean, it all makes sense. And right, what you said at the beginning of the conversation about this business is it's a part hiring and retention, it's, it's enough, it's a forgotten about piece, right. And it's an often outsource piece. But when we're talking about you're in to James's point about it's, you're not just fitting in machine parts, you're building a team. And if you're going to put all this effort into building your culture, being intentional around that, you know, setting up certain things for success in a way, you're going to have a little more control over those in the only piece that's bringing people in or keeping people from leaving, you'd like to have a little more control that yourself having a tool like this, you said you want to be with people forever, right? Like you want to be their partner for a very long time. But they, they're controlling a lot of it, because you said you build up the assets that so they're like their own assets, right? You're building out their, their, their upfront, whatever they're using from you, toolkits and stuff like that. But it's like their own stuff. But and there, are they able to drive quite a bit of it themselves and be really ingrained. They're not going to passively use you guys.
Matt DiBara:Yeah, I mean, they're ingrained. Yeah, we just our goal is to take away the part of the business they shouldn't be doing. Yeah, like sifting through resumes, like the problem with that, if you've got an HR person, you know, it's like, how many resumes Can you sift through accurately and good, why you got all these other things you need to do, we look at the average HR managers plate, and it's like, oh my gosh, like, you know, and we just we have a team, and we're able to, we just hired somebody was interesting. And it was a school teacher. But prior to that, I believe he was a he was in the construction industry. And he had a little note on his resume about being in the construction industry. And our team had the bandwidth, call him up and say, Hey, I noticed this small little one line here. And he ended up being a great fit for our client. I don't know that if if they had just somebody flicking through that they would have caught that been able to go that deep call the person ran away, reach out, like, it's just it's about filling a gap in the business for the parts of the business that really, you know, most companies my belief all of them shouldn't be doing. It's just not your you know, it's not the sweetspot it's like you don't you don't build QuickBooks and bring it in house you use the software. You know, it's kind of like the same thing with us like we, we take that part off of the companies because here's what I believe the hiring candidates is the one sale that you make, that you can have a 10 or 15 or 20 year benefit From, if I saw a candidate on the dream of working at one of my companies, I can I can receive benefit as well as provide benefit for 1015 or 20 years, there's no job that you're ever going to sell, right? You might land a reoccurring contract. But there's nothing that's going to provide the same level of benefit growth, scalability, longevity. You look at acquisitions, right? Why? Why are VC firms buying companies right now? Number one reason according to the people, I'm talking to his personnel list, first thing they care about, like, oh, we'll fix the brand. I will sell. We're not worried about that. We'll input our marketing systems. Show me your people.
Sebastian Jacob:Yeah, no, I mean, yeah. In in, again, industry agnostic issue of finding great people. Yeah, go find great teams. That definitely makes a lot of sense. I was we always kind of wrap things up with them. And you're you, you are a very, the question is always like, what are you most excited about? Your, your? I'm sure there's a lot. But I want to know, first, what is the story with the undercover contractor?
Matt DiBara:So that I help a lot of people behind the scenes with construction issues in the LA market, and across the country, kind of started by accident. It was like, celebrities like hey, I'm getting screwed by this contractor, what do I do? I would help them behind the scenes. And I always had this one agreement rule, I was like, Look, you can't use my brand. And be like, Hey, Matt wrote this letter. And that's of this because I'm like, we're actively working here. I don't want to cannibalize my company. So I built this name as the undercover contractor. Because first of all, I don't really look like a contractor per se, as what a lot of clients telling me, but second of all, it was just a behind the scenes thing. And so they want to make a show concept around me. You know, our goal is to develop a show, we're basically kind of going undercover, figuring out the issues that the homeowner is facing, and then fix those with either a new team or something of the like, but it's a show around helping helping homeowners is what I do, kind of in my free time if there is any. And and we're looking at making that, you know, something behind the screen.
Christian Hamm:Okay, so it's, it's somewhat in its infancy, then.
Matt DiBara:Yeah, so we got an agent.
Christian Hamm:That's looking, you know,
Matt DiBara:go to Network here,
Christian Hamm:hopefully. Oh, nice. Nice. Okay. Cool. So it's something to be excited about and into the future here. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. Well, I mean, James, I don't know if you have anything to add, or ask or anything like that?
James Faulkner:No, I'm cool.
Christian Hamm:Ya know, so much has been covered. Man, there's a ton of I will say this, this has a ton of great nuggets to pull out of this one that I know our audience is really going to love. And we always end with a few questions. Little rapid fire round. But first, is there anything that you're, whether it's hiring, whether it's I mean, you are giving some great ideas for advertising and marketing, your business and even team building everything like that? Is there anything you'd want to leave our audience with, with regards to any of those or just something that you're just excited about in the next six to 12 months?
Matt DiBara:I'm excited for any company to spend more time on hiring, like this is the little pitch that I think if you as a business owner put time towards like, if you literally write down if I'm a general, and I write down the subs that are like, I would rate every one of my subs A, B, C, D or F. And I would go through and and I would start with the lowest and I would spend minimum two hours a week saying how do I take this F and make it an A? How do I take and then once you've got all your apps gone? How do I take my DS and make them A's and I would do a similar thing with my team, I would rate my team on a letter grade. And the F below that I would have empty as in people I just need to fill right because an F player who shows up is better than not having anybody at all, unfortunately. And that's what the marketplace is kind of used to. But that helps qualify and quantify our problems. If you force yourself to letter great things. It puts it in front of you. And then if that's the first step, and the second is to say alright, I'm going to put two hours on my calendar, do it on a Saturday, I do it on a Sunday, right. But I'm going to put time into solving these problems. I've never found anybody in the last three years that's done this exercise that hasn't had monumental growth because it's just love output.
Sebastian Jacob:Ya know, and I mean, I think that's very well said. And I think that a lot of intentionally around hiring, and even looking into everything that you're working on and listening to this particular episode would be very beneficial. Lots of little tips and tricks, I think in here that can help any contractor. All right, Matt, I don't know if you looked at those questions beforehand. We always end with a rapid fire question. Sometimes it's best if you didn't. But we always end these it gets us and our audience to know a little bit more about you even and maybe how you tick. Sound good.
Matt DiBara:Let's do it. All right.
Christian Hamm:Okay, Matt, what is something that you do? that others would think is insane?
Matt DiBara:I get up at like, four 3:30, 4:00am Every day.
Christian Hamm:One of those. That is pretty nuts. That is I tried that for a long time. It's progressively getting a little bit later, but man, it's time to go to bed at okay, so you're getting, you're getting the max hours in. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Very nice. All right, if you weren't doing what you're doing right now, if you're not doing the family masonry business leading the charge there, you're not doing the contractors, consultants. What would you be doing on construction related? What would you be doing?
Matt DiBara:I tell people who travel and does like the vlogs. Like, I really I watched those. And I find that so fascinating. The video recording of like, I'm here now. And I'm doing this. Yeah, not really.
Sebastian Jacob:Yeah. I could see that you're great at explaining things, again, super hyped, so I could definitely, I could definitely see that happening. All right, last one. Here. Were construction podcasts recall the site visit? What is your favorite? I'm sure you got one, what is your favorite story or memory from a past project or on the job site? got so many one that stands out. One that stands out.
Matt DiBara:Favorite one, I remember when I was I was in college, and I was at a meeting and there was all these higher ups and they were going over. It was a one of the largest Buddhist temples in the country were building projects was a multi nine figure project insane. And then this huge meeting with all these like projectors and everything up there about how they were going to get this massive Buddha crane did to this to basically on the site or whatever. And, and I remember the meeting, and they had like projections and models and all this stuff, the weight and the wind and the weather and everything you can imagine. I remember sitting there and listen to this meeting. And then you know, I saw it and then we go to they go to live with this Buddha. And I'm there. And this crane is pulling up. And I stop and I look and I look at the site super. And I go did anyone ever plan for where the crane is going to be seated as we deliver this. And I pointed to like it was a big mud pit where the crane. And he's like, Shoo. And I just remember they dropped the food and they had to like redo everything or whatever. But it was an interesting, it was an interesting story for a lot of reasons. One is just it always reminds me to the practical the like to look at those really practical things. But it was also really funny because you have this massive. There's a people like it's in this box. And then it's just like, he's just like, hold on. And then he goes and talks and then everything's just paused. And it was like this box was there for a week as we figured out how to do this differently. So pretty funny.
Sebastian Jacob:It's so crazy how many complexities there are on a job and to like get them all done every time on every project is like a feat in itself. Right. But to see something like that I'm sure it'd be pretty, pretty humorous on a jobsite for sure. Yeah. Well, Matt, it's been fantastic having you today. I know for a fact. I'm sure James could speak to this. I'm going to go back and listen to this one. This one is full of great tips. I know our audience is going to love I know they're going to be able to glean a lot of expertise from your, your hiring experience, and everything you're doing with the contractors, consultants. And it'd be great to keep in touch and do a follow up episode when you know down the road as you build these out even more.
Matt DiBara:Yeah, I appreciate you. I mean, I think you touched on some topics that are that are really relevant, and I admire what you're doing truly
Christian Hamm:Cool. Well, thank you very much. Well, that does it for another episode of The Site Visit, thank you for listening. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube. You can also sign up for a monthly newsletter at sitemaxsystems.com/thesitevisit where you'll get Industry Insights, pro tips and everything you need to know about the site visit podcast and SiteMax the job site and construction management tool of choice for 1000s of contractors in North America and beyond. SiteMax is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building!