CLF 2023 D1E5 | Networking and Professional Development in Construction with Scott Foran (505-Junk) | EP82 (Part 5)

Day 1 Episode 5 | In this episode, from the conference floor at the VRCA Construction Leadership Forum 2023, James and Christian are joined by Scott Foran, Co-founder & Director of Sales at 505-Junk and Chair of Young Construction Leaders (VCRA) with over 500 members.


EPISODE LINKS:
Scott Foran LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sforan-505/
505-Junk Website: https://505junk.com/
Young Construction Leaders: https://vrca.ca/membership/young-construction-leaders-network/

PODCAST INFO:
the Site Visit Website: https://www.sitemaxsystems.com/podcast
the Site Visit on Buzzsprout: https://thesitevisit.buzzsprout.com/269424
the Site Visit on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-site-visit/id1456494446
the Site Visit on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5cp4qJE5ExZmO3EwldN1HH

FOLLOW ALONG:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thesitevisit
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesitevisit

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 1:02

We have joining us right now Scott Form from 505 Junk.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Hey guys, how's it going? Thanks for having me again.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

It's good. It's good. You're like an alumni of uh of the Slaves, officially an alumni.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Well, yeah, this is my personal second time, but I know Barry's been on a couple times with you guys as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Yeah, I know. I know Barry's awesome. He's so funny. Did you guys uh have to wrestle over that one? He's like, hey, I'm going on the site. You're like, oh, you are, hey? You're doing it that again.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

There was a definite conversation that had to be had. He tiptoed around it, and I was like, you know what? You can go. You got invited. Let's go. You know, you get out there. But honestly, you know, in my role now, um, with business development stuff, uh, at the end of the day, I'm out always doing networking, and hence why I'm here now. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

It's just uh just the kind of nature of business, right? You gotta stay in your lane as it is as we call it.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Well, what I love is, you know, we're here in Vancouver. Well, we're up in Whistle right now, but we're all based in Vancouver, British Columbia. You you and um Barry uh are co-founders in 505 Junk.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Absolutely. We actually have uh we have a third partner as well, his name is Alex. That's right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

He's the one who's who's sort of worked his way in, right? He did, yeah. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Speak Sweck Equity. He's uh he's been with us as like Swequity. Squake. Swequity, yeah. But I mean that that's a good that's a good way to call it. Yeah, it is. Uh uh he started with us the first year uh and just stuck with it the whole way. And uh it's been an incredible asset to our team, actually.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

So um that's really cool. And I like the romantic music playing in the background, as you say this.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

It's just adding the ambiance.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

It's a reunion. It's beautiful. We're here together. It is having a lovely conversation. What I was gonna say is um you're talking about your role and how it's funny how when you're you're building certain things, you wear different hats at different times, but I see you out on the road because you rip around in your 505 truck. Yeah, and you've always got the hat on. I'm a hat guy, so but like always repping the brand. You're very on mission, you're very on point. When I see you in passing, it's just like that guy is he's getting her done.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

Yeah, well, absolutely. And and and as a business development, uh, in in business development or my actual role as director of sales, yeah, you know, you always have to be on brand. My trucks, you're commenting to my truck, it's you can't miss it. Uh, for those of you that can't uh haven't seen me driving on the roads or aren't in the Vancouver area, it's a giant green truck, fully wrapped, 505 junk on it. I stand out, everyone I get texts every day from people like, oh, I just saw you driving down the road. I just saw you over here. Just shows your junk. Just shows your junk, yeah. Exactly. That's stand out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Um does anybody ever drive by you and like follow through on that?

SPEAKER_03 3:41

You know, uh it's like, hey, check out this chair. Yeah, check out this old sofa.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Oh, and this nice, nice, nice recoil.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Honestly, uh, luckily you've you hooked me into that. I say it, you don't say it, and then you say furniture. We're talking about business development.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

Yeah, we're talking about business development here. Um but no, honestly, the the slogan has uh hasn't got us in trouble before, no, thankfully.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

No, it's cheeky, it's cheeky need.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

Exactly. And I mean, most people take it literally, they just show us their garbage, so we can go pick it up. Yeah, yeah, it's been fun. Um, but yeah, in the in the role of business development, that's why I'm up here uh at this wonderful event uh hosted by the VRCA. Um I'm currently the chair of the YCL. Oh, let's talk about this. Yeah, that's right. The young construction leaders, right? So uh it getting involved is how how you can get your name out there more and and and by giving it to such a good cause is the young construction leaders, yeah, which is a kind of a subsidiary of the VRCA. Um, you know, you get to do fun events, you get to network with all sorts of your peers and in other industries and kind of build on that. And I've developed such a great network through that. It's been honestly outstanding. I'm sure have you guys been to any of the YCL events this year?

SPEAKER_02 4:58

No, I haven't. Well, we were briefly together on like I was the I did one year of treasury or something like that on YCL or when they went from uh 40 under 40 to YCL. Yeah. And I know that because we you were in the Zoom calls and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

I was jumping in there talking. I I'm I'm a big talker. I like to I like to like to get involved in the conversation and participate and stuff like that. And that's I guess fits for my work. There, yeah. That's just genetics, thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

No, it's it it's like hey grandpa, are you seriously in this young thing?

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Well, that's why they they changed the name. We did change the name, yeah. We it's not it because it used to be U40. Oh, yeah. I'm not 40 yet, but uh because the U40 kind of discouraged people who are over 40 and to not go, and and we wanted them to go. We wanted people feeling young. Yes, feeling well, feeling young, but also like the intention here is is to get the youngism, you know. That's uh that's not our intention. The intention here is to get everyone involved.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

I'm 50, so I've gotta I gotta say stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

You gotta you're just throwing darts at me now just because I guess I'm part of the opportunity. You love it. Yeah, I do like it. Um but uh getting changing the name was to get to get more participation. Yeah we were we were finding and and part of like kind of the YCL events and how I pitch it to to most people that come out to it, uh come out to the events and and participate, and how I sell it to people to join the YCL is it's a bunch of people who are all in, they're not directors, they're not high-level positions, they're they're they're well there are they could be high-level positions, but they're you're a high-level position. I I yes, I am, but I play around with everyone in the same level, right? Uh it's it's it's just part of the part of the networking, part of building myself up, part of building the brand. But most individuals are project managers, project coordinators, they're you know, salespeople, they're they're in the you know, more I would say, mid to entry-level to mid-level positions in their business. And that's a that's a a big asset that to them to build their network and to grow it. And that's kind of why we started doing it.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

That's awesome. You know what I love about the YCL, and I hope this is the case, and I'll assume it's the case for other associations, construction associations or otherwise across our country. Um, it's driven up engagement like crazy. Yeah. Like the when you go to different events or when you see each other around town, it's kind of like that it's the high five and the hug, you know, and it's just like, hey, well, I haven't seen you in a little bit. Or remember that last thing we like there's a real camaraderie being built amongst the young men and women that are part of the YCL.

SPEAKER_03 7:32

Abs, absolutely. I mean, we uh just last year, like we used to be like the the kind of project, you know, the side project for the VRCA, like, oh, we're just gonna kind of get them going. And and now here we are. We're compete, we're comp yeah, we're we're competing with them on major events, golf tournaments, to the point where they've had to schedule us so far away from each other. Because it gets sold out so fast. We get sold out so fast, you know. Uh we're probably gonna end up doing the lottery system ourselves this year because we filled up two full courses last year. And we're just getting that momentum, right? People are wanting to get engaged because they're realizing this is the you know, you're when you're talking to these individuals that are part coming to these events, they're the future they're the future, right? They're the ones that are moving up the ladder, they're the ones that are growing their position. So why not network with them? Why not connect with them? Why not grow together as a team? And I I personally can vouch for that. Like I I I've made so many friends in the YCL and that it's it's been a catalyst to my personal career, but also to like just my personal development. You know, I learned so much from them, right? Like even being on your, not to pump your tires here, but even being on your podcast and and learning so much over the last couple of years through people coming up to me and going, like, oh, I heard you on the I heard you on the podcast, and it was so amazing. And like learning about your your relationship with your business partner. This is all opportunities that were created by being a member of the VRCA, by being a member like of the well, at the that time it was the U40, yeah, right? Because that's where we met. Like we met there and there was more networking and stuff like that. But that was an initial touch point, right? It was absolutely so and that led to this opportunity where we're sitting down now catching up as old friends, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Yeah, I I definitely think we should um we should do something more uh with your group there. Cause it because it it's the fact that it's focused and that's there is a kind of youthfulness to it. I think you can kind of have a quick bit of fun with it too.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

We've talked about doing a YCL roundtable. Oh yeah, because we got this new studio, right? And yeah, we have lots of people around it. We could definitely do that. We'll just an event or like a collab on something.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Yeah, we'll just do a like a meet and greet to begin with, and then you schedule like you know, sort of you know, three, three like 30-minute interviews, four 30-minute interviews, and people can listen.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

That would be amazing. Honestly, I I think this experience from from today, for example, you're talking about these like little quick hits, you know, 15, 20 minute hits. Yeah, who knows, could be a new thing, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:55

It it well, you gotta break up the segments, right? You have to you have to deliver different segments to hit different uh listeners in your audience.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Yeah, absolutely. And for those of you that are listening out there right now that are in the position where you think you could become part of the YCL committee, yeah, I encourage you to do so. Reach out to me, I'll tell you all about it. It's gonna be awesome.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

And if you're not based in Vancouver, um, because we got listeners all over Canada, we go spread out kind of where we all have customers with SiteMax throughout North America. Of course. But we, you know, promote joining all your uh the the because everyone's kind of got a their construction association in their city, and then there is in a lot of places that younger, more like I was we're saying catalytic group that kind of is driving the younger uh generation in construction. And I think everybody needs to get out there and support that local one.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Absolutely, absolutely. Join if you're if you're not here in Vancouver and you aren't able to join the YCL, look to your local, look to your local uh committees, look to your local uh uh opportunities that you can participate in. It's a great, not only is it a great career booster, but you're you're talking to people who are of similar age, of similar point in their like lifestyle and life processes and probably career development. So you're all kind of going through it together. And then there's occasional person, like you said, myself, who's getting a little bit older now, who can provide that guidance. He was calling me out, calling me out for the gray beard hair. Uh, but uh you know, the we have that experience, right? So I got to follow uh, you know, the last chair was Jeff Block.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Oh yeah, he's a he's a is it a lunchie or he's he's ripping around here somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

Pretty famous guy, obviously, you know. Uh and and I learned a lot from him. Yeah. And just like uh our our new uh my new vice chair, his name's Abby, uh, great guy. Again, it's all about that, it's all about that compounding the knowledge and kind of showing the the the people coming from you know, coming who are just coming into the industry how to network, how to talk, what's going on, like just just getting out and getting involved and just for the most part like having a lot of fun. Of course.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Yeah. What I like um about what you did not too long ago, actually, right before we sat down to have this conversation, is you being chair of the YCL and a business development guy. You're like a natural connector, right? And the the beautiful case of you brought over two gentlemen that just moved here from the East Coast from Montreal who are with Pomerlo and they're starting up a new business unit out here. And you're going, you know what? Boom, those guys they got connected with YCL. We need to introduce them to other people here that can spread the word about what they're building and immediately like connect the dots.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Doot doot doot and that's what it's all about. Yeah, yeah, you're totally the catalyst between that. I got a question. Do you guys have um within the organization what would kind of be cool is if you had um a job a job board. Do you guys have like a a job board that people can post job opportunities within all the companies that your group members are in?

SPEAKER_03 12:57

You know, that's a that's a that's an um an interesting and kind of challenging subject to approach, right? Because the main the main thing here obviously is with everyone. Um I guess the question would be job board. Are you talking about the sites that we're going after, the projects we're going after? Are you talking about job opportunities?

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Employment opportunities.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

You know, that we've thought about it. Yeah. But the reality is is you know, you don't want to discourage companies from letting their job from people going to these things and getting poached for other jobs, right? You want to you want to you want to kind of promote the collaboration and letting them know like, sure, they can go talk to their friends who are at other organizations and learn about this the awesome things that you know some other companies might be doing and hopefully take that home and take that back to their take that back to their organizations and implement those things to create those positive environments. But yeah, we we we at this point in time we're not looking at creating a job board because we don't want to encourage people to hop around. We just want to encourage you to develop in your role and like learn from your peers and obviously take those take those tactics.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

The other thing that I mean you you could have is uh you know anybody who um uh recruits from out of construction. So somebody is new to construction that comes into any of those organizations, gets an honorary uh like in into your group or oh that'd be amazing. Like that, I mean that that makes sense. That would that would absolutely honestly I think because you expanded construction, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

If if if it was up to me, I would uh I would probably be pushing something similar to that where it's like, hey, we're encouraging um, you know, let's just take Graham for construct uh for Graham construction, for example. They're a they're a big builder out here. Um every new site super has to attend a YCL event just to network with their peers, network with their colleagues. And like it might like that would be um that would be a cool thing to do. Like for my company personally, which 505 junk, obviously, um, I encourage my team to attend as many events as they can. Not because I'm uh not because of trying to get networking or anything like that. It's just a matter of along the lines of I want them to learn how to talk at the industry level and meet people that are of similar mindsets and just kind of get a uh a good understanding of what construction language is. Um as you know, construction is technical and it can be it can be very, very high level, and um it's kind of an accelerated process just by learning and kind of uh I guess the good example would be if if you go traveling and you know a little bit of let's say Spanish and you're in Mexico and and you can start picking up more of it because you're just kind of sitting and you're kind of uh engrossed in that environment. Yeah. So we're just trying to create that environment. The construction environment, the vocabulary, the talk, the talking, the the in the education. I learned so much. Every time I go out to an event, I meet someone new, I learn something new. You were talking about the uh you were talking about Palmerlow. Yeah, uh, I convinced him to come out to our site tour of a Graham site the other day. I had no idea anything what I was looking at. I I manage waste. Yeah right. And we're walking around, and I'm walking around with him, and he's like, This is what this is. Oh, that's really neat that you guys do that out here, and all these cool techniques that I just had no idea what about. Very fascinating. And now I can look at it and go, I can appreciate what's happened because I understand the vocabulary, understand like a little bit about it, I can understand of why it's so technically complicated because I'm learning. Yeah, right. And that's how I'm advancing, as I'm getting an understanding of all these things. So that's I I think that's uh to your point, would be a really useful tool is to get especially the younger people into YCL.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Younger people and those that maybe are looking for career shifts, right? Because we were saying non-construction, we talk a lot about like industry advocacy. It comes up all the time. You know, we have to make construction just more appealing, but it needs to be seen more accessible and look like a viable career building opportunity for younger people, but also those that they may be five, 10 years into their journey post high school or post-university and still kind of feel like they're wandering a little bit, right? But you can really get on track in construction quite quickly because things are so structured and regimented. Yeah, and there's great growth paths that are laid out before you. We joke all the time. It's like construction is a place where you can you can really accelerate your career by just showing up. Yeah. And you get start getting paid right away, right?

SPEAKER_03 17:32

And you know, you uh you joke about that, but it's that's actual that that's the truth. It's the actual reality, just by showing up and being committed to showing up. Clock's ticking. Clock's ticking, you're gonna learn. Yeah, so it it's uh it's pretty incredible. And and I actually really like that idea. Uh, I personally uh with the YCL have gone to schools to advocate for this, but like to your point, it might not be the right point to catch them. We might be wanting to catch them later on, like after they've gone and experienced a couple, you know, after school jobs, you know, entry-level positions, and might be looking for that opportunity. And I I don't know what that would look like, but I I think that's a really solid idea.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Well, I can't remember, maybe it was with Donna Grant, president of the URCA, uh a few episodes back, where we were talking about there's so many new positions opening in construction with the advancement of technologies and design and all those kind of things. So it's not just like, oh, you don't do trades? Okay, well, you can't be in construction. It's like, oh, well, I worked at, I don't know, XYZ startup in their engineering department. Oh, great. You can join a Palmer law, right? And building something internally. Like your skills are very needed and you're contributing to a great industry like construction.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

What about the the um the it'd be interesting to see what the if you had to be able to do a poll of the generation. So let's say you got the the baby boomers and the you know, like my parents, what did they influence me and my friends about construction? Was there a, you know, no, go to university and become a you know white collar, whatever, right? Yeah. But the question is, as we move forward in the generations, there's my generation who have a daughter who's 15. Let's say I had a son, let's say I could have easily had a son that's 20 right now. So it has the spectrum of stigma been diminished over these years or generations of construction being a viable thing that it that has a um I guess the right word would probably be uh to have a positive cultural uh like a there's an award to it. It is almost like this like you know, for instance, someone said, you know, uh my son or daughter is a doctor or a surgeon or something, it has this, it has this cachet. So the question is, is that how you can go into the schools and try and convince but if they go home and their parents are going, no, no, no, don't do that stuff, there's like just you gotta go back to university. Do you know what I mean? Yeah so you have to influence their parents to not say that stuff. And like literally, because I I just don't know how um I don't know how you you make a construction plan A.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Do you know what I mean though? I think in Architect, like you can if you're want to be an engineer and you want to be an architect or you want to be a construction manager or you you want to go to these trade school or these these more um managerial schools, it can be an A because you might have had some sort of exposure to it. But when we're talking the different uh spectrums of types of jobs on construction, how do they become plan A stuff when you go to a school? I think you know what I mean, though.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

I can speak to and Scott, I get your opinion on this as well. But I think given that you can what is it, age 16, I guess, you could probably get a job on a construction site or something like that. Yeah. Again, it's it's very easy to just jump in and start pushing a broom for way better money than working at McDonald's, let's say. Or cactus club as a as a bus or whatever. Whatever it's like, yeah, doing dishes or whatever, right? But yeah, but but but but the um accessibility in that and like almost like it's like paid internships, right? Like pushing a broom is like an internship in construction, right? Being a laborer, but making crazy good money as a laborer. Yeah, yeah. That sort of stuff. It's not the plan A, but it can very quickly become a plan A when they see all around them at a very young age what these men and women are able to do with their careers quite quickly in construction. But how did it go down with you and your parents?

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Uh that's a great question. I mean, my parents never discouraged me to look into anything any career. Uh Um, I mean, my dad was a salesman. Uh, my mother was a broadcaster. So no formal experience natural now. Formal experience with trades. Uh yeah. Formal, no formal experience with trades, but you know, I'd been exposed to my entire life because my my family, you know, was fairly handy. So I naturally was inclined to want to work with my hands. I enjoyed it. Uh, and saying that I don't actually work with my hands, I combine both. I I sell a service that uses your hands and your intellect and technology and all of the things that go along with it. I think that's kind of to to to answer your question a little bit more directly. I think part of the um the ideologies that are being enforced is that it's just a hammer swinger or a shovel. Like you just pick up a shovel and is that part of your job? 100% it's part of your job. It's not all your job. You're still, you're using, you're using all of the skills. You're using, you're especially math, obviously math, geometry. Like you, you have to, you have to use uh project management skills. It's a very exciting, um, exciting kind of opportunity for a lot of people because it exposes you to a lot of different things. And that's kind of what led me to to where I am now is I got exposed to sales. I got exposed to working with my hands, I got exposed to doing all of these different activities, you know, and I've worked on construction sites before myself. Like I've I've been a general laborer, I've been a framing apprentice, or a carpenter apprentice, I've done a lot of I've done a lot of activities before, and I kind of dipped my toes in it until I found out what I wanted. But how do we encourage, to your point, is how do we encourage parents to not downplay this and become option B? How do we make it option A? I don't know if there is a really good transparent way to or a good way to do that. Um, aside from like exposing them to it, like I know that the government was uh looking at making to your point about 16-year-olds, like the government was looking at uh, I'm not sure if it's here, I think it was in Ontario, um, where they're changing the laws that says your grade 12 year can be can in you can graduate, but you can go work in in trades. Beauty. Which is a an amazing advancement, especially for kids that are, you know, struggling in school or ones that are already are more technical and more hands-on that want to do that type of thing. What an accelerated pathway to like they're gonna by the time they're by the time their friends are out of university, they've already bought a house and have started to move their life on way down the line.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

It's it's kind of a no-brainer, hey, like sink sink the hook in, not in in any sort of a nefarious way, but like sink the hook in while they're they could still be trying to make up their mind and they go, Oh my goodness, I'm I'm making good money. Yeah, this is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

I've got a life, like I've got a life, yeah. I can live, yeah. You know, you we all know how hard it is. Like I I personally had to save up for 10 years. Ten years it took me to save up enough money to buy a house, right? And I looked at my friend who at uh 19 years old decided to become a plumbing apprentice. He was 24. When you bought his house. When you bought his house. Yeah. Yeah. I I just it it like you look at the the math there, and like, what? It it's it becomes a no-brainer for a lot of people. And that's why I think if you look at the math behind it, and if you can paint that picture and just take away maybe any some of the negative stigma uh stigmatisms behind it, yeah, it it's a no-brainer. We're gonna get a lot of massive uptick.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

So I heard this sound bite about um the boomers, that generation, saying that the reason that a lot of you know their offspring are so soft, they've been called soft or whatever it is, or like, you know, just so like, oh my god, like come on already. That's us, right? That is us. I know, I know, but you I'm you know, you're so you guys are here and baby boomer babies. Yeah, millennials. But the reason is is because there was enough wealth there and they didn't want to have to put their kids through any of the pain that they went through. But no, but that's that's what that's that's what I think.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yeah, me too. Maybe that's maybe that's the tactic. Throw them to the wolves. I think I think it is a bit of tough love.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

Sorry, you're not done your point, but tough love. Yeah, a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

But I think that you know, there's there's certain the models of what people follow and how life is like everything's so transparent now, and people see others in the the Instagram filtered world of like you know, this this surreal thing that doesn't even exist. And yet there is this sudden like no school of hard knocks, go back and just like what you're saying with your your dad, right? Like I'm just wondering if today that's even harder to do. Oh, probably. Because people are just like, why would I I mean now you've got people saying, Why would I even work hard? You know, I don't even like the way the world is, and like it's just a big mush, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Yeah well, think about like the things we did when we were kids. When we got bored in the the keynote today, he kind of spoke about it and he mentioned the helicopter parent thing, or he talked about iPads and cars when you're on a road trip, right? Well, when we were kids, um, we got outside and got dirty, like by playing, not working, just simply playing. We went outside and got built things and smashed things together and built bike jumps and stuff like that. Like, what kids do that kind of stuff unless you live rural, but everyone's in densely populated areas, there's no opportunity for that.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

Yeah, I I it it's funny you mentioned that because I was just thinking about that the other day about how I used to play in the I'd go out and play in the backyard, and I would literally build a bike ramp or a skateboard ramp and almost break my arm doing it. Yeah, and that was part of playing, it's just being outside and using your hands and and learning and struggling through things and realizing that you can't swing your hammer properly. And you know, all the fun, all like that's all good memories. But to your point, I live in an apartment now. Yeah. Where where do I do that? Yep. Where do I where do I where do I take my kids? Where do you send the kids? Where yeah, where where do I take them down and and and do that stuff with them? Yep. It just it just doesn't exist anymore. So going back to your going back to your original point of like, are we taking like our is it is it a generational thing or is it just a circumstance of the climate that we grow up in?

SPEAKER_01 28:19

I don't know. I mean part of it might be a a I don't even want what my parents have. I don't even care. I don't need to own a house. I don't give a shit.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

That is a bit of mentality for some for sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

It is, it is. It's like I don't want to do this thing. I want to travel over the world, I wanna, you know, I I I just a lot of the so I think that the the the the age group that you guys are in, and I think you're a bit different. We're talking the the quite younger people, we're talking the people in their 20s, right? So you it doesn't you guys don't like lay in there. So like 20s, 20 like 20, let's let's just think between 20 and you know 25. And they're you know they're trying to target that right now in terms of getting people into trades and getting people into construction. The we always talk about it's just like in sales, right? You have a funnel at the top, like your ICP, your you know, your customer profile. This is like the the uh candidate profile. There's a whole bunch of uh psychology there that they don't even fall into it. They're just like, nope, not interested. Because I don't want the result of all these people that are telling me how great construction, I don't even like them. That's how like backwards it is.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Yeah, I I don't know You know what I mean though, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:41

It's so trite and so kind of ugly out there because of just the way things are. And I think like I I did see I did take I saw a photo and um that I took on there was a bus bench, like the you know, the bus shelters, and it was you've probably seen this one. Uh where is it? Here it is. It said uh this is what our plumber looks like. Yeah, I've seen that. You've seen this one with the fishing pole? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great though. So and this is uh this is uh uh British Columbia Construction Association and uh Canada, founded by the Government of Canada's apprenticeship service.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

And so this is kind of interesting. Explain explain what the picture is. Oh, sorry, explain what the picture looks like. Yeah, so there's a guy in uh, you know, like a boat with a lake in the background and he's got a fishing room. Yeah, he's fishing for it. That's what construction looks like.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

And he looks like super happy and your lifestyle allows you to leave work at work and go home and live. And he's probably like, I don't know, late 20s, early 30s in that photo there. And you can absolutely afford that lifestyle if you start trades when you like at the right time.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Here's my question, though. And I know this is super dystopian, but I don't even know young people want that. Today, I don't even know if they want to go fishing.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

I'll I'm gonna count I'm gonna counter both of those arguments right now because I've got two things for you. One is the vast majority of my personal workforce right now is in that age bracket. And they do. And they do, and they they they don't all not all of them fish, definitely. I've got one guy who's just uh his name's Nick, and one day you'll get a chance to meet him. He is out fishing now, he's got a week-long vacation next week. He's going fishing then, he's got two more fishing trips booked in a couple weeks. He's out fishing every weekend. He is by far one of the best fishermen I've ever met in my entire life. Hands down. He's really, really good at it.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Probably call Nick get him to take us out.

SPEAKER_03 31:37

Yeah, exactly. Honestly, yeah, he would love to do that. He's a really good, really good guy for that. But I mean, to answer your so that yes, they do. Yes, at least in my experience. It just happens to be the one, the one picture and the one example I have a very shining example of. But um, in in the in regards to the the the 20, the 20-year-old, the 25-year-old, yeah, that's the vast majority of my employees.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:58

Now, um, honestly, to your point, like, oh, I don't want that. I don't like I don't want what you guys have, I don't want those things. You're 100% right. They probably don't, mainly because they haven't had enough life experience yet. Exactly. I I I when I was that age, I went traveling around the world. I used every last But you hit the nail on the head.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

They had the the the compression of what they know is so limited, but yet they think they know so much because they have so much information at their fingertips.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

A lot of information and not a lot of experience.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

That's why you show them because you have to show them. Yeah. A lot of it does come down to um parents, adult mentors in life, whatever it happens to be showing the younger generation the way. Because if you just expect these things to pop in their head, there's obviously things that are just innate and that just they're ingrained in you. But when all they see is a screen in front of them, you know, you can put a lot of fishing pictures in there, and I don't know if it sends off the triggers that are required to connect those dots there. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

I a hundred percent agree with you. And and and I mean this is it's cool, this has come full circle here. Yeah. Part of the YCL young construction leaders is that is my job, that is our jobs for that matter, um, to to help the net the next generation. Yes. We, you know, uh I sit down with my team, I have uh a few people that are direct reports to me that are in that age bracket. Yeah. And I show them, I give them that roadmap, I encourage them, I want them to experience, I want them to grow, you know, and I don't tell them they have to, I just show them the way to get there. And guess what? If you show them the way to get there and and help them spell it out, they're gonna take that opportunity. There's a big disconnect between that photo, yeah, okay, and the work that they have to do to get there. They don't understand the pathway. But if you took them all on that journey and said, Hey, you want this, you want a house, you want to be able to go on vacation, you want to be able to go fishing on weekends, you want to have these fun things that you want to enjoy, yeah. Well, you need to earn it. And here's how you do it. It's step one through 10, and then you just continue to work and build yourself up from there. And I think one of the biggest things from my perspective, at least in my experience, is offering them a pathway that makes sense. There's a uh a bigger picture that's so big that they can't we call uh we in in my coaching academy call it big Harry Aditious Goals, right? Like it's so big B HAG, you can't you can't um visualize it fully. Like you just know that it you want to get it get there. Well, it's my job to take a B HAG and then go 10 steps back and go, here's what you need to do to get to step one. Once you hit step one, recognize that, move to step two, and just kind of move them along. Yeah, and that serves a couple different purposes. One, it gets younger people engaged, and two, it keeps them you retain them. My average tenure for my employees, I I I don't know what it is. I'm it's over a couple of years. Like, you know, in an industry where, especially doing what we do, which is moving waste all days, you can be really tricky.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

But you've done a good job, it seems like of on the development side. So once they're in, you can show them the way.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Um, my concern is getting them in.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

I can speak on that point too. Yeah. So getting them in, how do you get them in? Well, you start by getting a few in, and then they bring their friends, and then they bring their friends, and then they bring their friends. Super good point.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Because I was gonna say this. We we have some kids that carpool to school with, and one of them's now just graduated. Well, through his grade 11 and 12, the 12th year, he was a plumbing apprentice, or he's a plumbing as a helper, yeah, right, on a job site. And my son, a few years younger than him, sees this and he's exposed to it. And he would go and like play game, video games with this guy every now and then. And so he's now gone, he's at BCIT, this kid. But my son now knows that there's an opportunity that he can go and jump on a job site in a year or two, and he can make really good money because he saw somebody that he um uh found was credible in his life, right? Absolutely, and it was a friend. So when they're exposed more and they see people in their lives that they um can look up to or that they can believe in as real, they can go and do those things too.

SPEAKER_03 36:25

Yeah, it it's it's it's a compounding effect. And I mean, and and to to to your point, like it's a it's a cultural play, right? You want to build and develop that culture and create that kind of compounding growth effect. The biggest challenge with that, of course, is you have to maintain it. So you have to constantly be evolving and constantly be growing and kind of keeping ahead of them. It's honestly it's a really fun experience and a fun journey, and and I've really personally enjoyed learning that myself and developing and evolving and growing myself. Um, and I would love to see more people, more young people come and join the industry or at least just dip their toes in it. I don't care if you I don't I think the biggest thing here, and I think most people are like, I don't care if you don't like it. Just try it first and then tell me you don't like it. You know, try it first and then maybe shift, go like, oh okay, I like this aspect. Well, great. Now try something different. Yeah, it's like cilantro. It's like cilantro. Yeah. Oh well, yeah, that's a that's a genetic thing, actually. But it it it's just it's like when you're talking, you know, when you're trying to get your kid to eat vegetables, like, well, just try it. See if you see if you like it. Or smoke some. You might you might surprise yourself.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Absolutely. When you um the reason that we you know we have these sort of like um, you know, on the edging on the debate side of things is because if you were to listen to the last, I don't know, like four or five podcasts we've been doing, it is about how we at the site visit here and with SiteMax can advocate for bringing more and more people. So when we have these things, it's like I'm trying to get to the bottom of it, you know, being like an ex-branding guy and a brand strategy as you go, you always have to figure out what the psychology is behind people and and what motivates them. So you know, listening to this, you know, with you, it's like I really try and figure out like what the hell what's gonna be that one catalyst. And do you know what it very well could be? It's that this AI takes over so fast that everyone wants to get the hell away from it and actually become in the real world, yeah, and do do this stuff because it might be the only thing that saves us.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

This and we'll seriously and we'll tight we'll tidy this up. Construction might be. As soon as you say AI, it's like, how much time we got? Um he likes to do this. The fishing picture. Yeah, and this ties into your thing. We've gone through a lot in the last three years of accelerated uh attention grabbing. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah. When we're all subjected to it and we're all fallen victim to it and been distracted like crazy. But you see a fishing picture, and that's the whole taking you full circle and being like, that's such a foreign idea. But maybe that's what we're all getting back to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

Right?

SPEAKER_02 39:12

At some point in time, yeah, people are like, I gotta pull back from this a little bit. And hey, you know what? There's actually an industry that allows me to pull back from that because I don't have to sit at home and answer emails all night necessarily, unless you're running the business, obviously. Right? But still in moderation, you live that lifestyle too.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

I think this is really cool. Scott, thanks for jumping in, uh kind of off the cuff and um riffing with us for a little bit. We are here at the construction leaders forum with the VRCA. You're the chair of the YCL, you gotta you carry a voice with this association and the people around it. What's one thing? And we've been talking about advocacy this whole time, basically, but what's one nugget you would leave for us all to be able to contribute to be better advocates for the construction industry if you just summed it up into a nugget?

SPEAKER_03 40:00

Better advocates.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

We're the best advocates we can be.

SPEAKER_03 40:04

I would say just encourage people to just just to participate. Honestly, that's the only thing I can do. That's all I do, is I encourage participation. As the chair of the YCL, I go out and my advocate advocacy is hey, you're gonna have a lot of fun and you're gonna meet a lot of people. So just encourage, like all it is, is just encouraging participation and letting the people that you're surrounded by, because you know you've only invited the cool people, you've only invited the people you like to hang out with, letting them do the the hard work. The rest. Yeah. And that's and that's to the point of of um of all of my employees and kind of building that culture. It's the same thing. It's just do the hard work to get that first person or that second person in and let it compound from there. Just encourage people to try.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

And well, congratulations. You've done obviously done a good job with you guys on what you've done with your companies.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

And it's really cool to catch up. These uh follow-on uh conversations are pretty awesome for our us, of course, in our relationship, but for our audience as well, we track along. I would like to talk to you.